Mr Jonathan Davies, Mr Gareth Stace, Mr Merlin Hyman and Professor Mike Gregory

22 JANUARY 2008

  Q217  Chairman: Good morning, gentlemen. Can I welcome you to the Committee? Perhaps you could start by introducing yourselves.

  Professor Gregory: Mike Gregory. I look after the manufacturing management division of the University Engineering Department at Cambridge.

  Mr Stace: I am Gareth Stace. I am head of environment at EEF, The Manufacturers' Organisation.

  Mr Davies: Jonathan Davies. I am Resource Management Director at Enviros Consulting and I am here as the chairman of the EIC waste and resources management group.

  Mr Hyman: Merlin Hyman, director of EIC, the Environmental Industries Commission. We represent over 330 companies involved in environmental technology and services providing solutions to environmental problems.

  Q218  Chairman: As you are aware, we are dealing with waste and we have been trying to find definitions of it. We are getting to a point where we are concerned as much about resource efficiency as anything else. It seems self-evident to us that efficient, successful businesses are resource efficient as well but we find also that this blinding truth seems to have evaded businesses, small business perhaps more, but businesses across the board are still insufficiently aware of the significance of resource efficiency. What is your experience? Would this be borne out by yourselves? Have you any ideas why this should be the case?

  Mr Stace: Awareness is still very low in terms of the issue of resource efficiency. In terms of SMEs, it is possibly even lower than other companies. We notice that something like 42 per cent of SMEs do not have recycling ever on their board agendas so if it is not on the agenda they are not talking about it and they are not doing anything. The larger companies have more resources and they are doing good work in terms of resource efficiency and are seeing the benefits of that in terms of saving money. The information is out there but it is very confusing and I think that is the problem. If you are a small organisation, a small company, where do you go to get the right information for what you are trying to do or your production process? That is the barrier. You might know what you need to do, but sometimes you do not know how to action it and achieve it.

  Q219  Chairman: Our function is to produce a report for government. Is it just government getting the message across? Is it getting them to exhort or should there be a bit of the stick as well as the carrot, the only problem being that if governments pick up the stick it is called regulation and this is anathema to at least business organisations. Professor Gregory, as someone who observes business and advises rather than gets your hands dirty, if I may say so, perhaps you could start.

  Professor Gregory: The point is getting air time with the senior people in small companies. They are extremely busy. If it is not on their list of top three jobs today, they are probably not going to get round to it. The stick is a bit worrying because then they will be even more frightened of engaging with people who know about these things, fearing policemen and so on. It seems to me that if you can plug into the day to day business of the companies you have a chance. There are already some very good support mechanisms. I am thinking of things like the Manufacturing Advisory Service. It seems to me the trick is to try and get these issues absolutely welded in to the kind of service that is already provided by established bodies rather than saying, "We have another great idea for you to worry about." The other people that really drive the attention of people, particularly in small companies, is the supply chain. Somehow, if you can identify which are the key supply chains and work through from the top end of those, then you have a chance. You will have seen something in the FT a couple of days ago about major companies, retailers, forcing the issue down the supply chain. It seems to me that could be for other supply chains as well.