2640. CHAIRMAN: Mr Sanderson, the last word is yours, but I think you will have gathered that we are not really the right people to do the job that you want us to do. We do not have the expertise, we have not got the evidence and I do not think we will be able to wait for the evidence to be produced and, even then, I am not sure we will be able properly to evaluate it. Are you really wanting to pursue this Petition, because I do not think we can do anything to help you? The Lands Tribunal is there and it does all this sort of thing all the time, but I am not sure that a select committee of the House of Lords is the sort of body that ought to try to do it.

  2641. MR SAUNDERSON: If I may just correct one or two things that have been said.

  2642. CHAIRMAN: Of course you can.

  2643. MR SAUNDERSON: Baroness Fookes mentioned the question or it was mentioned about why I had not applied in May 2007 to the Lands Tribunal—

  2644. BARONESS FOOKES: I did not mention a specific date, that was Ms Lieven.

  2645. MR SAUNDERSON: ... sorry, or could have replied earlier. Ms Lieven, rather, said in answer to you, I could have applied in May 2007. From April 2007 to January 2008 there were supposedly negotiations or valuations evidence being exchanged between Jones Lang LaSalle and Kinney Green and it became obvious towards the end of 2007 that we provided valuations and all they did was just attack them and there was nothing forthcoming. In the end I said to Jones Lang, "You must have a meeting with Kinney Green and ask them to make an offer because there is no desire on their part to ever reach anything, a settlement, or to negotiate", but that resulted in the—

  2646. LORD YOUNG OF NORWOOD GREEN: I am sorry to interrupt, but what I do not understand is you can do this as a parallel process, so we have been informed, unless we have been misinformed. You can refer to the Lands Tribunal at the same time as your negotiations are continuing and I do not understand—it might be me—there must be a subtle reason why you did not seek to take advantage, because if ever there was a case where you could, if you pardon the vernacular, have your cake and ha'penny, this looks like one.

  2647. MR SAUNDERSON: We had the answer in Mr Eden's email where he says I am offering you 575 which will not be increased, so there is no negotiation.

  2648. LORD YOUNG OF NORWOOD GREEN: What would you have lost?

  2649. CHAIRMAN: That is not an answer to Lord Young's question. He said there can be a parallel process. One half of it seems to have come to a grinding halt but, nevertheless, in those circumstances why not take the other track?

  2650. MR SAUNDERSON: That is certainly correct. The second point which Baroness Fookes mentioned, of course, was the question of costs and Ms Lieven said she does not know the basis of Jones Lang's fees. She does know the basis of Jones Lang's fees because they have been agreed with Crossrail and they are on an hourly rate basis, they are not on a contingent basis so they require to be funded as they go along or they will not do the work.

  2651. LORD JAMES OF BLACKHEATH: May I ask a very small question, it is niggling at my curiosity. Please, I hope it is not offensive, but I am trying to establish whether you are standing here in respect of you and your co-owners only or whether there is some hidden presence behind this as a result of you having granted at some stage a lien or a charge on this property?

  2652. MR SAUNDERSON: No, there is no lien or charge on the property.

  2653. LORD JAMES OF BLACKHEATH: That is all I wanted to know. Thank you.

  2654. CHAIRMAN: Please, say anything to us that you like. You have heard the dilemma that we are in.

  2655. MR SAUNDERSON: Yes, I appreciate entirely your point and I am in your hands to the extent that—

  2656. CHAIRMAN: That is very true, but I still want to hear from you. I still want to hear from you by way of persuading us to do something rather.

  2657. MR SAUNDERSON: When I say, "I am in your hands", what I mean is that there are eight highly competent, highly talented people who may be able to consider a way in which, having heard what I have said, there can be some mitigation of the poor situation which we are placed in. I have suggested ways and I do have a summary paper to hand out of my final points.[14]

  2658. CHAIRMAN: By all means.

  2659. MR SAUNDERSON: This is my prayer to your Lordships.