2520. MS LIEVEN: Yes. Mr Saunderson could, as I understand it, have served a blight notice at any point on 10 Hayne Street after 1990 because although he could not serve a blight notice on the other properties, because they would have been above the value allowed for blight notices, because they were owned by the company, and he owned 10 Hayne Street privately he could have served a blight notice on 10 Hayne Street and then, my Lord, triggered the process that your Lordship has just referred to if there was a dispute.

  2521. CHAIRMAN: Yes, and he has got a certificate of alternative development .

  2522. MS LIEVEN: Yes. There is no dispute, there was a planning permission on 10 Hayne Street and there is absolutely no dispute that absent Crossrail there would be a planning permission on 10 Hayne Street. The only dispute which is now live is what the scale of that planning permission would have been, or would be.

  2523. CHAIRMAN: If we are going to assess, as we have been invited to do, all the various compensation items that would be decided by the Lands Tribunal, we have also got to make an assumption about the certificate of alternative development , have we not?

  2524. MS LIEVEN: Yes, you have, my Lord.

  2525. CHAIRMAN: And how are we to do that?

  2526. MS LIEVEN: Well, your Lordships would have to do that on evidence. We would have to each call planning experts to give evidence as to what planning permission would be likely to be granted by the City Corporation absent Crossrail.

  2527. BARONESS FOOKES: I presume that the Lands Tribunal would have to do the same?

  2528. MS LIEVEN: Yes. The Lands Tribunal is quite used to having to do those kinds of slightly strange exercises.

  2529. CHAIRMAN: Evidence would inevitably be brought before the Lands Tribunal for that very purpose.

  2530. MS LIEVEN: Absolutely. There would clearly be efforts at agreeing it but it is very common to call that kind of evidence. I am in your Lordship's hands as to whether you want to hear from Mr Smith.

  2531. CHAIRMAN: Would Mr Smith be proposing to tell us about valuation?

  2532. MS LIEVEN: Well, he could if your Lordship asked but, no, I do not think so.

  2533. CHAIRMAN: Would he be proposing to tell us about the Certificate of alternative development ?

  2534. MS LIEVEN: No, my Lord, save in the most generalised terms. He can tell your Lordships about the history; he can tell your Lordships about the normal processes of compulsory purchase compensation and blight notices; and he can give your Lordships the kind of background which to some degree I have done but he could do far more expertly and with more knowledge.

  2535. CHAIRMAN: And he could give his views about fees?

  2536. MS LIEVEN: And he could give his views about fees, my Lord. Not about, I suspect, the level of fees, but he can certainly tell your Lordships about normal practice.

  2537. CHAIRMAN: Mr Saunderson, having heard that, I am hesitant about asking Mr Smith to give evidence because I am not sure that it is going to assist us. Do you want to go into this process in order to try and get us to determine the value, the date, the Certificate of alternative development and the fees in place of the Lands Tribunal?

  2538. MR SAUNDERSON: If I may pick up one question which I think I can answer straightaway on the Certificate of alternative development .

  2539. CHAIRMAN: Please do.