3 Apr 2008 : Column 1137
3 Apr 2008 : Column 1137
3 Apr 2008 : Column 1137
Thursday, 3 April 2008.
The House met at eleven o'clock: the CHAIRMAN OF COMMITTEES on the Woolsack.
Prayers—Read by the Lord Bishop of Carlisle.
Elections: Postal Voting
Lord Campbell of Alloway asked Her Majesty’s Government:
What measures they are taking to ensure that there is no postal fraud in the forthcoming local elections.
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Ministry of Justice (Lord Hunt of Kings Heath): My Lords, the Government take very seriously the integrity of the electoral process. We have introduced a number of measures to tighten up the security of the electoral system, which will be in place at the forthcoming May elections. We also support the work of the Association of Chief Police Officers and the Electoral Commission in preparing for those elections updated guidance on preventing and detecting electoral malpractice.
Lord Campbell of Alloway: My Lords, I thank the Minister for that Answer, but is he aware that the Council of Europe reported in January of this year that the household postal vote on demand was open to fraud and urged that changes be made to the postal system and to registration? Is he further aware that it was judicially decided last month that it is childishly simple by corrupt practices to opt out of or bypass— that was the word used—the Act? In those circumstances, what do the Government intend to do to protect the May elections? If they are not prepared to take any steps, will they consider implementing the recommendations of the Electoral Commission in its booklet of January 2007 posted on its website?
Lord Hunt of Kings Heath: My Lords, that was a very extensive question. Of course I am aware of the Slough case and of the Conservative councillor who was found against, and of the Council of Europe committee’s deliberations. It is fair to say that, although it identified some challenges that we face, it also made it absolutely clear that UK elections are conducted democratically and represent the free expression of the will of the people.
Changes have been made to the system to provide more checks. I was present at the launch of the guidance given by the Electoral Commission and the Association of Chief Police Officers. There is very clear guidance to returning officers about electoral integrity and advice for polling staff about maintaining integrity during the voting process. Of course, we will keep that closely under review, but the changes made
3 Apr 2008 : Column 1138
Lord Campbell-Savours: My Lords, is it not the difficult and unpalatable truth that much of this fraud is centred on the ethnic minority communities? With that in mind, is it not quite wrong to proceed with more and more draconian regulations and controls? Should we not concentrate our efforts on dealing with the problem precisely where it exists and not in this very widespread way?
Lord Hunt of Kings Heath: My Lords, if one looks at the record, it is clear that, overall, we have a system of which we can be proud. There are areas where there has been fraud, some of which may well have included people of different ethnic backgrounds. The best way forward is for the Electoral Commission to continue its work of giving general guidance and target its efforts where the appropriate information is available.
Baroness Knight of Collingtree: My Lords, the Minister said that a number of steps are already planned. Is one of those steps to ensure that people cannot knock on the doors of lonely and frightened old people, take away their postal votes and tell them that they will fill in the forms for them? There was much evidence of that in Birmingham and it is very worrying.
Lord Hunt of Kings Heath: My Lords, the noble Baroness will know that there has been concern about a number of cases in Birmingham, the latest of which was reported yesterday. The issue of party workers handling postal votes, to which I think the noble Baroness is referring, was discussed during the passage of the Electoral Administration Act 2006. Although agreement was not given to legislation, a national code of conduct for political parties was developed. I do not want to read out all of it but I shall make it available to the noble Baroness. It makes it clear that you—candidates and party workers—should not touch or handle anyone else’s ballot paper.
Lord Grocott: My Lords, does my noble friend agree that a crucial part of the integrity of elections on election day is related to the mechanism of the electoral system that is employed? Does he further agree that evidence from the recent report shows that there are tremendous advantages in the merits, quality and integrity of the first-past-the-post system which the Government and everyone else should recognise?
Lord Hunt of Kings Heath: My Lords, the excellent report to which my noble friend refers is widely admired because it provides evidence for any voting system you care to support.
Lord Rennard: My Lords, does the Minister accept that the vast majority of crime in this country is unreported—and therefore not prosecuted—and that the recent scandals of postal vote abuse in places such as Birmingham and Slough may be only the tip of the
3 Apr 2008 : Column 1139
Lord Hunt of Kings Heath: My Lords, the noble Lord will know that the issue of voting at weekends is being considered. I do not agree with his general point that it is the “tip of the iceberg”. Noble Lords have commented on worrying cases but, overall, we can be confident in the integrity of the system. As to individual registration, I agree that it might offer a way forward but the risk is that it could lead to under-registration. Ultimately, we want to see registered everyone who ought to be registered, and voter turn out as high as possible, but if individual registration leads to under-registration and under-voting, we would be cautious about going down that route.
Police: Neighbourhood Policing
11.14 am
Baroness Dean of Thornton-le-Fylde asked Her Majesty’s Government:
What progress they have made in introducing neighbourhood policing teams into every community in England and Wales.
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Home Office (Lord West of Spithead): My Lords, the government commitment to a neighbourhood policing team in every area by April 2008 has been met. For the first time ever, every household across England and Wales will have a dedicated police team to solve local problems. This marks three years of hard work by police forces and police authorities to roll out neighbourhood policing.
Baroness Dean of Thornton-le-Fylde: My Lords, I thank the Minister for that response. Does he accept that many of us in this House who have worked in communities have long held the view that you can have safer communities only with community policing, and thus welcome this initiative? Matt Baggott, chief constable of Leicestershire, the lead on ACPO’s neighbourhood policing initiative, has also welcomed it. However, what guarantees do we have that the community policing teams will feed back to the communities and not to the officials in the local authorities who will not necessarily give the information back? What guarantee do we have on budgets? Most importantly, what access outside what I call “office hours”—9 am to 5 pm—will the local community have to these police community teams?
Lord West of Spithead: My Lords, my noble friend raises some important points. On the funding side we have a good story to tell, at present and into the future. We have spent about £700 million since 2002
3 Apr 2008 : Column 1140
With regard to feedback, I was in Cambridgeshire on Monday—in the city of Cambridge, in fact—talking about neighbourhood police and going out on to the streets with them. My noble friend is right: this initiative has made a huge difference. The liaison, the integration, the ability to pass information backwards and forwards between the council, housing authorities, groups of local businessmen and the police, and the use of PCSOs, all of these are extraordinarily valuable. I think everyone would accept that it has been a huge step forward.
Baroness Trumpington: My Lords, I declare an interest as an ex-mayor of Cambridge. I hope the Minister enjoyed his visit. Does he agree that Crimestoppers does not know any closing hours?
Lord West of Spithead: My Lords, I have talked with the noble Baroness before on the Floor of the House about Crimestoppers. It is an extremely useful organisation, which is indeed open all hours. I did not really answer my noble friend’s point on the 24/7 issue; I forgot that one. There are times of the day when the community support teams are not available, but out of hours there are contact numbers that can be phoned and police response teams are always available.
I very much enjoyed my time in Cambridge. I talked to one of the PCSOs and discovered that, like many of them, he was a local man. I said, “You therefore know all the scallywags”—not that I am insinuating that anyone from Cambridge is a scallywag—and he said, “Yes, Minister, I was a scallywag”. That is one of the strengths of this initiative: we are engaging the community in that way.
Lord Mackenzie of Framwellgate: My Lords, does my noble friend agree that we are not talking simply about anti-social behaviour but about serious matters, such as terrorism? Communities defeat terrorism. Neighbourhood policing is an integral part of the fight against terrorism, and if we get that right we will succeed. Does the Minister agree with that?
Lord West of Spithead: My Lords, my noble friend makes a good point. He is right. Of course, my prime interest is in the area of counterterrorism and security, and the NPIA and OSCT within the Home Office are looking at developing the contribution that neighbourhood policing will make to terrorism. It will have a big impact because the way to stop extremism is out there in the communities. I know all noble Lords agree with that, and we are looking at how we can take it forward.
3 Apr 2008 : Column 1141
Baroness Miller of Chilthorne Domer: My Lords, I am glad that the Minister feels confident about the financing, but how does he think the five police authorities whose communities wanted to spend more on policing, but which the Government chose to cap, feel? What message does it send out if communities choose to spend more on policing and the Government then decide to the contrary, given that that adds the expense of council tax bills being sent out again, so that money is going on council tax bills and not policing?
Lord West of Spithead: My Lords, the noble Baroness raises an important point. Police authorities are the exactly same as local authorities: the same rules and procedures apply to them. There are seven authorities. It looks as though they are in the frame for capping; I do not know how many will finally be capped. However, they have benefited from a decade of sustained funding increase and the overall government grant to police authorities will increase by 2.9 per cent for 2008-09, which is above the rate of inflation.
Lord Inglewood: My Lords, bearing in mind the previous Question, what advice is being given to neighbourhood policing teams about electoral fraud?
Lord West of Spithead: My Lords, I do not know a great deal about this, but I think that they are given advice by the Electoral Commission. If I am wrong on that, I will come back to the noble Lord in writing, if I may.
Baroness Hanham: My Lords, is the Minister satisfied that the police support officers’ current holding powers, which are no more than those of a citizen’s arrest, are sufficient? Will he consider whether they should be given full powers of arrest?
Lord West of Spithead: My Lords, there has been a lot of discussion about PCSOs and their powers and capabilities. They are an adjunct to the police. Their job is not actually to arrest people and take them to the police station, because then they would not be spending their time in building up community cohesion and problem solving. They are there to stop crime happening in the first place—the real achievement—by co-ordinating across the community. At the moment we think that they are extremely successful. They are supported across the country and there is huge support everywhere I have been. They are doing a very important job. At the moment I do not think that we would look at increasing those powers.
Lord Dholakia: My Lords, one of the exciting aspects of community policing is the recruitment of people from ethnic minorities, who are now going into mainstream policing. Has the Minister worked out the economic impact of such people reducing crime in this country?
Lord West of Spithead: My Lords, the noble Lord raises an interesting point. I have to say that I have not considered the point in great detail but I share his
3 Apr 2008 : Column 1142
Health: Inequalities
11.22 am
Baroness Greengross asked Her Majesty’s Government:
What plans they have to promote the use of health navigators to tackle health inequality, as proposed in the Turning Point report A Personal Approach to Public Services.
Baroness Thornton: My Lords, we welcome Turning Point’s report and its contribution to the discussion on personalisation of public services. We are already making lifestyle advice and support on health issues available to individuals through NHS LifeCheck and health trainers. Tackling health inequalities is a top priority and we have the most comprehensive programme ever in this country to address them. We will be strengthening this by publishing a long-term health inequalities strategy later this year.
Baroness Greengross: My Lords, I thank the Minister for that reply, but I stress the needs of people who have multiple conditions. Often, they have very many conditions, including long-term asthma and problems of that sort. Those who come from a particular community may also have language difficulties and therefore a problem knowing how to navigate in order to get the services that they need, be they health, social care or anything else. What additional support will be given to such people as individuals, which I believe the health advisers do not do? That would be invaluable in combating health inequalities.
Baroness Thornton: My Lords, information is indeed important. Asthma UK is advocating the use of health navigators. That is a good example of the way in which health navigators, or indeed the health trainers, can provide information not only, in this case, on the use of inhalers but on help with paying prescription charges and on support in taking time off work to accompany children to their appointments. They can help people to negotiate a route through the complex maze of services to allow them to tailor those services to best meet their lifestyles and their needs.
Baroness Tonge: My Lords, I am sorry—I have completely frozen.
Baroness Gardner of Parkes: My Lords, will the Minister define for the benefit of the House the intention behind, and role to be filled by, a health navigator? Will she say who is now doing the equivalent work?
| Next Section | Back to Table of Contents | Lords Hansard Home Page |