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People have already spoken about the European arrest warrant. There are many examples, such as Schengen-building measures on data sharing and so on, that are critical to our ability to solve serious and organised crime, such as people trafficking, and to tackle issues as important as terrorism. Noble Lords should not underestimate our wish to make sure that we are able to do this.
The noble Lord, Lord Leach, raised three questions, and I shall be very brief. The first was whether this is different from the constitutional treaty. The answer is yes. He asked whether it will bring us closer to the people. Of itself, it is a tiny part of that. I have always believed that it is the practical things that we provide for our citizens that make us better understand the European Union and wish to recognise it. When people can buy goods abroad and find that if the goods do not work they are able to get their money back more quickly; when they are able to study at universities in Germany, France or Portugal or wherever they wish to; when they find that they can go and live easily, buy property and enjoy life in whatever country they wish to; it is then that being part of the Union becomes a practical reality—as well as when they see all the travelling that we will all be able to do now that Eurostar is even faster and comes even closer to where I live.
Is it about being prosperous? As I said before, 57 per cent of British trade is within the European Union. Our exports have gone up by 25 per cent since 2005-06. That is a growing trend. I believe that the Union makes us more prosperous and that it enriches us culturally and in every other way as well.
The noble Lord, Lord Watson of Richmond, talked about testing out propositions. I found some of the propositions mentioned today very testing. As the noble Lord said, it is about managing affairs more effectively. Keeping the project going forward is an important part of this; it is not about standing still. The European Union is a project that should move forward within the context of ensuring that we move to institutional change only when we need to. I have already indicated the importance of doing that after the move from 15 to 27 member states.
The noble Lord, Lord Watson of Richmond, and the most reverend Primate talked about what is at stake. That is a very important debate that needs to underpin our debates on the ratification process.
The noble Lord, Lord Campbell of Alloway, talked about the passerelle. Perhaps I may quote the Prime Minister on the passerelle, because not only my noble friend but the noble Lords, Lord Grenfell and Lord Howell, also referred to it. The Prime Minister has made this commitment:
“To ensure that no Government can agree without Parliament’s approval to any change in European rules that could, in any way, alter the constitutional balance of power between Britain and the European Union, we will make a provision in the Bill that any proposal to activate the mechanisms in the treaty that provide for further moves to QMV, but which require unanimity ... will have to be subject to a prior vote by this House”.—[Official Report, Commons, 22/10/07; col. 22.]
I can confirm to the noble Lord, Lord Grenfell, that the Government’s intention is that both Houses of Parliament will have a prior vote on any such passerelle.
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My noble friends Lord Watson of Invergowrie and Lord Wedderburn were concerned about the issues of what I have described as social Europe. My noble friend Lord Lea also raised his concerns to make sure that we do a number of things—first, that we promote more effectively what has happened as a consequence of being part of social Europe. I take that point extremely well and will ensure that I am confident in future speeches in outlining the benefits of being part of the European Union in that context.
A very important part and dimension of the European Union is that we tackle exclusion and increase opportunity. That means, as my noble friends would expect me to say, investing in skills and human capital. I have not had to read out from the results of today’s discussions, and my noble friend Lord Lea may know more than I do on the working time directive and agency workers. Our position on those dossiers has not changed. We support the principle of the agency workers directive. We want a text that strikes a balance between protecting workers and not putting their jobs at risk. On working time, we want a solution to the problems caused to the National Health Service, as noble Lords would expect, and the retention of a workable, individual opt-out on working hours. We will strive to make sure that we can achieve that.
I do not agree with my noble friend Lord Watson that UK workers will have second-class rights compared with other member states because of the UK charter opt-out. The charter, as I have already indicated, does not create any new rights, so there is no question of us putting our citizens in that position.
I understand the strength of feeling of the noble Lord, Lord Willoughby de Broke, and his party affiliations. He and I live in different worlds as to our views on Europe. It is important that we reconnect with people, an important aspect of what the noble Lord said. To move away from Europe in the manner suggested would leave us exposed and isolated in a way that would not be good for us economically, socially, environmentally or in any other way. Too many of the problems we face in this country require solutions way beyond our borders. Collaboration is an important part of what we do. As the noble Lord, Lord Stoddart of Swindon, mentioned in the context of the Commonwealth, it is not either/or, it is both/and. Our relations with NATO, the US, Europe, the Commonwealth and a whole range of countries enhance our opportunities to both trade and be secure in our borders, and ensure that we have opportunities for our citizens. It is both/and, not either/or; it is as simple as that.
I have already indicated to my noble friend Lord Wedderburn the important issues that he mentioned about social Europe. I apologise that the notes that he received were not good enough; I shall endeavour to ensure that they are better than they were. As ever, he spoke with great passion, and great experience from a long and distinguished academic career.
I view the contribution of the noble Lord, Lord Sheikh, as a “What happens if”. The noble Lord mentioned the Danish Justice Ministry, and the work
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I am nearly at an end. The noble Lord, Lord Stoddart, accused me of making a eulogy; I took that as a huge compliment, as he would expect. I have already indicated the issues of the Commonwealth versus the European Union. I understand that the noble Lord has heard all about moving to the point where we have the institutions settled for some considerable time. Well, I hope that time will prove us right and, perhaps, the noble Lord wrong for once. Trying to get this to the point where settling how we have an efficient, effective and best value European Union in terms of how we work together—the bureaucracy and so on—is important and not to be underestimated. As my right honourable friend the Prime Minister has made abundantly clear, he wishes now to move into areas where practical action to solve some of the huge problems we face across Europe and beyond forms the basis of our role and work within the EU. I am sure that my right honourable friend will ensure that that happens. I could spend a long time picking up various points of the noble Lord, Lord Stoddart. I will not. I am sure that we will have plenty of opportunity to do that.
My noble friend Lord Lea paid tribute to the Select Committee and the sub-committees I have already referred to. I hope that I have answered or made reference to at least some of the points about the social agenda, about which I know my noble friend feels strongly.
The noble Lord, Lord Blackwell, talked about incremental change. He was also very kind about the fact that I have sat here for five and a half hours. I would not have missed it for the world; it is important. The noble Lord was particularly concerned about European Union citizenship and that it might undermine national legitimacy, an issue which I do not think anybody else raised. It has existed, of course, since Maastricht. It is limited and covers only the rights which people hold by virtue of their national citizenship—the treaty is explicit on that point. The rights therein are common sense, and I hope that we will be able to look at that as part of the scrutiny of the legislation.
I end with the noble and learned Lord, Lord Howe of Aberavon, when he said that in 1950 he wrote about active British leadership. I feel that I have been chastened by some of the comments, but hope that, tonight at least, we have had some active British Government leadership on supporting our role in the European Union.
On Question, Motion agreed to.
- House adjourned at 10.09 pm.
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