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House of Lords
Tuesday, 6 March 2007.
The House met at half-past two: the LORD SPEAKER on the Woolsack.
Prayers—Read by the Lord Bishop of Liverpool.
English Teaching: Immigrant Workers
Lord Quirk asked Her Majesty’s Government:
Whether, in view of the Audit Commission report of January 2007, Crossing Borders, they will ensure good provision of English language teaching for immigrant workers.
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Education and Skills (Lord Adonis): My Lords, the Government recognise the vital importance of English skills for those who come to live and work in the United Kingdom, which is why we have trebled the funding for this in the past six years. To further improve provision, we will introduce new, specially focused ESOL for work qualifications from this August.
Lord Quirk: My Lords, I am grateful to the Minister for that response. I applaud his wish, which he expressed in the debate on 26 February, to target teaching resources on the neediest and least skilled. But is there not a Catch-22 here, that those who are neediest and least skilled are the very ones who are least able to demonstrate their needs? In the recent debate, the noble Baroness, Lady Walmsley, spoke of a,
- “15-page form to fill in, which would challenge the most fluent of us”.—[Official Report, 26/2/07; col. 1442.]
Does the Minister not agree that as well as benefiting the migrants and immigrants themselves, a good knowledge of English makes them more valuable to our economy and that depriving them of that participation serves no interests other than those of gang masters and the BNP?
Lord Adonis: My Lords, we are very mindful indeed of the issue the noble Lord raises. We are considering—and will be announcing shortly—proposals which will specifically help three groups which meet the criteria the noble Lord has set out of being vulnerable with a high demand for English-language skills but unable to meet existing criteria. Those three groups will be: spouses who do not have access to funding or to family benefit documentation; workers on very low wages and not in receipt of working tax credits; and asylum seekers whose cases take much longer than the Home Office targets, or who remain in the UK as a result of a Home Office or a High Court decision. I hope that the measures we announce will meet precisely the concerns the noble Lord has set out.
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Lord Geddes: My Lords, in asking my question I declare an interest as chairman of Trinity College, London and congratulate Her Majesty’s Government on the considerable success of their Skills for Life programme. Will the Minister confirm that adequate funding will continue to be available in order that this very successful programme can continue, bearing in mind that its participants are not able to afford it?
Lord Adonis: My Lords, as the noble Lord will know, funding in this area has trebled over the past six years. I can give a commitment that we intend to sustain the currently available funding, but of course we want to see that as many people as possible are helped by it; hence the changes we announced recently.
Lord Anderson of Swansea: My Lords, does my noble friend agree that the response from English UK was very refreshing? It accepted that the current rate of increase in government expenditure was not sustainable, but said that, to be effective, there should be more intensive courses. Is that view shared by the Government?
Lord Adonis: My Lords, we very much share that view, which is why from this August we are introducing these new, more work-focused ESOL courses. They will be shorter and more focused on the English language needs of those going directly into the labour market.
Baroness Walmsley: My Lords, on the Government’s proposals for cutting the number of people who are eligible for free ESOL courses, why did they not conduct their racial impact survey before, rather than after, announcing their proposals? Furthermore, will this assessment also cover the impact on women?
Lord Adonis: My Lords, the impact assessment will cover it, and we intend to publish it very soon. As I said in response to the noble Lord, Lord Quirk, we will also announce measures to address specific concerns that have already been raised with us.
Lord Naseby: My Lords, is it not nonsense that medical staff from the EU who neither understand nor speak English adequately are recruited into posts in the NHS? Does that not put patients’ lives at risk, and are the Government urgently reviewing this terrible loophole?
Lord Adonis: My Lords, I think the National Health Service is very mindful of the issues that the noble Lord has raised and is taking steps to address them.
Lord Alton of Liverpool: My Lords, is the Minister aware of the continuing concerns of people such as Asylum Link Merseyside, on whose behalf I wrote to his department at the beginning of last month, that there will be cuts affecting asylum seekers and
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Lord Adonis: My Lords, I expect to be in a position to reply very shortly to the noble Lord’s question. As he will have heard in my response to the noble Lord, Lord Quirk, we intend to address precisely this issue of asylum seekers whose cases take much longer than the Home Office targets or who remain in the UK as a result of a Home Office or High Court decision in the new measures that my honourable friend Bill Rammell will be announcing very shortly.
Baroness Shephard of Northwold: My Lords, the Minister has told us that he is due to announce new measures shortly, and he has described the groups which will be helped by the new measures. Will he be certain that measures will be introduced in such a way that the people in those groups will be aware of them? One of the greatest problems for migrant workers is that, precisely because of their language difficulties, they have not been aware of the help that is available to them.
Lord Adonis: My Lords, we intend to work with community groups which deal with such people to see that there is greater awareness of the opportunities that are available. Further education colleges play a big part in this, too. They market their courses very widely in their communities, including in the different ethnic minority groups. So I hope that there will be a rapid awareness of the opportunities made available.
Lord Roberts of Llandudno: My Lords, given the BBC’s World Service and world programming, what consultation is there on media such as television channels being used not only here in the UK but also worldwide to bring about instruction in English?
Lord Adonis: My Lords, that is more a question for my noble friend Lord Triesman, who I see on the Front Bench and who has responsibility for the World Service. I cannot give the noble Lord a direct answer on the role that the World Service can play, except to say that it does an enormous amount of very valuable work to spread English language skills. I will come back to the noble Lord with more specific answers after I have consulted my noble friend.
Lord Elton: My Lords, is the Minister aware that when I was last in China, I was stopped three times in two days by local Chinese who wanted to practise the English that they had learnt through the BBC World Service?
Lord Adonis: My Lords, it might have helped them to practise on someone who could give them better advice on how to come into this country.
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Autism: Inflammatory Bowel Disease
2.44 pm
The Countess of Mar asked Her Majesty’s Government:
Where within the National Health Service diagnosis and treatment are available for autistic children with inflammatory bowel disease.
The Minister of State, Department of Health (Lord Hunt of Kings Heath): My Lords, children living with autism have access to the full range of local and specialist healthcare for the diagnosis and treatment of inflammatory bowel disease. This includes diagnosis and treatment in primary care, with referral to a paediatric gastroenterologist for specialist investigations, if appropriate.
The Countess of Mar: My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Lord for that Answer, but he is grossly wrong. I know of about 1,500 parents who have children with autism and inflammatory bowel disease, and not one can get treatment in the NHS. They have to pay to go to the United States of America for a proper diagnosis and a treatment regime which they bring to the United Kingdom. Will the Minister persuade Her Majesty’s Government to ensure that doctors are properly trained in the diagnosis and treatment of autism? Autism is not a single diagnosis. It is an imprecise word for a syndrome of about 21 conditions. Doctors need to be trained to recognise these and to provide quick and accurate diagnoses and treatment for these children, who suffer inestimable pain and hardship because they cannot articulate.
Lord Hunt of Kings Heath: My Lords, I certainly agree that the promotion of the early diagnosis of autism is very important; it is part of the general policies that the Government have promoted. I am afraid I cannot accept that treatment is not available for inflammatory bowel disease for NHS patients. I will of course undertake to investigate any specific issues which the noble Countess brings to my attention, but I am not aware of a general problem.
Lord Winston: My Lords, does the Minister know of any proven medical link between autism and inflammatory bowel disease? My impression is that there is none.
Lord Hunt of Kings Heath: My Lords, that is my impression too.
Lord Taverne: My Lords, will the Minister confirm that there is no support whatever for the link that Dr Wakefield claims to have established between MMR vaccine, inflammatory bowel disease and autism?
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Lord Hunt of Kings Heath: My Lords, I am very happy to confirm the statement made by the noble Lord. He is absolutely right.
Lord Addington: My Lords, have the Government done any work with children with autism and their parents on how they communicate with not only the health service but also others—for example, the Department for Education and Skills? How wide is the training and how is communication between the child and the professional managed? Surely that is most important. Communication between the autistic person and the professionals is not easy. Will the Minister assure us that this is being addressed for a condition which is growing?
Lord Hunt of Kings Heath: My Lords, recent studies suggest that the prevalence of autism in children under eight is approximately 60 per 10,000 and that a more narrowly defined autism is 10 to 30 per 10,000 children under eight. I accept that more always needs to be done to help those people with autism, and their parents and families, and I well understand the pressures on those families. We are working to take forward a programme in relation to a prevention agenda, better access to services and dealing with education for professionals, to which the noble Countess referred.
Baroness Masham of Ilton: My Lords, does the Minister think that it would be a good idea to have an NHS database where information is available for parents and others on the specialised services of these people, because they cannot be in every district in the country?
Lord Hunt of Kings Heath: My Lords, the noble Baroness has raised a very important question on the availability of information for parents when their child has been diagnosed with a particular ailment or disease. We need to ensure that the relevant information is given to them and that they are given access and information about support groups that can often provide a great deal of information. We do as much as we can to ensure that the NHS has that information available, but we are not complacent and I am very happy to look at the suggestion made by the noble Baroness.
The Countess of Mar: My Lords, is there any reason why a child with autism cannot suffer from inflammatory bowel disease? I made no direct connection between the two. I just asked where children with autism and inflammatory bowel disease could get treatment. Doctors ignore inflammatory bowel disease because they think that the child is autistic.
Lord Hunt of Kings Heath: My Lords, I responded to the question of my noble friend, asking whether there is a causal link between MMR and autism. I refer noble Lords to a review by the Medical Research Council which concludes that there is no such evidence. I do not have evidence that children with
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Earl Howe: My Lords, is not the noble Countess quite right that the diagnosis of autistic spectrum disorder is a matter for a trained specialist? Does the Minister share my concern that those who do not have the necessary specialist skills, such as social workers and teachers, tend too easily to attribute children’s behaviour to poor parenting when in reality there is an underlying organic cause? What guidance is there in this area?
Lord Hunt of Kings Heath: My Lords, the noble Earl has raised an important issue about awareness of autism, not just among clinical personnel but also across a wider range of professionals. So far as the National Health Service is concerned, we agree that there is scope for further awareness training for health and social care professionals and my department is in discussion with the relevant bodies on these and other matters. With regard to the position for teachers, I would have to find out from another government department. However, the point he has made is entirely relevant.
Cyprus
2.51 pm
Baroness Knight of Collingtree asked Her Majesty’s Government:
What further steps they will take, as a guarantor of the Republic of Cyprus through the treaty of guarantee, in pursuit of an equitable settlement for all communities on the island.
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Lord Triesman): My Lords, the United Kingdom Government remain committed to achieving a fair, viable and lasting settlement in Cyprus for the benefit of all Cypriots. We believe that this can be achieved only through a UN-led process supported by both communities. We will therefore continue to maintain our contact with all parties and encourage all sides to show the necessary political will to engage constructively with the UN’s efforts aimed at preparing the ground for a fully fledged settlement negotiation.
Baroness Knight of Collingtree: My Lords, does the Minister acknowledge that the severe hardships and trade restrictions imposed daily on the Turkish Cypriots are a gross denial of their political and human rights? Further, if it is true, as many in Europe allege, that Turkey cannot join the EU until the Cyprus problem is settled, is it not pure Catch-22 to claim that Turkish membership will bring about such a settlement? Which comes first, the chicken or the egg? Will the Government at least take steps to assist the Northern Cyprus economy by ensuring that the universities there are able to keep within the Bologna process, which would help a lot?
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Lord Triesman: My Lords, that was a complex question, if I may say so. I start with the general proposition that we fully support Turkey’s entrance into the EU. In doing so, we insist that Turkey must meet the obligations of being a member, and those obligations must extend to rights in Cyprus as a whole. We plainly need a comprehensive settlement. Everyone agrees that the UN will have to deal with a wide variety of issues, covering property, education, access, offshore exploration and so on—and that is why it requires the UN. The interests are very wide and no one country, I am afraid, is going to break through this conundrum.
Lord Wallace of Saltaire: My Lords, the Minister has stressed the United Nations’ role but, as we are all aware, both the EU and NATO not only are involved in the Cyprus question but are considerably obstructed by it, particularly as it affects the relationship between NATO and the EU. Since the whole question of EU engagement in Cyprus is central to resolving the issue of Northern Cyprus, can Her Majesty’s Government assure us that they are working as hard as they can with their partner Governments within the European Union to move the deadlock in a more positive direction?
Lord Triesman: My Lords, I hope that we have been doing exactly that. If we had been looking at the issue towards the end of last year, we would probably have detected some momentum. I greatly regret that that momentum has been lost. However, we are working not only in the EU but at the UN to see whether, with a new UN Secretary-General, there can be a new initiative with some strength and some purpose. That is plainly what is needed.
The Lord Bishop of Exeter: My Lords, one of the unresolved issues, and a cause of continuing tension between the two communities on the island, relates to those who disappeared during previous troubles. What support are Her Majesty’s Government giving to the UN missing persons committee in tracing, identifying and returning remains? What progress has so far been made in bringing some degree of closure to the many relatives for whom this is a continuing painful issue in both communities?
Lord Triesman: My Lords, it indeed remains a source of great pain. We have done all we can, not least because we have considerable resources in Cyprus, to assist in that work. It is slow work, however, and neither community has been wholly forthcoming in assisting each other. We need to persuade them that they should. The comprehensive settlement which I have tried to describe must, in the final analysis, give greater comfort to those who have lost their loved ones.
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