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House of Lords
Wednesday, 28 February 2007.
The House met at three o’clock (Prayers having been read earlier at the Judicial Sitting by the Lord Bishop of St Edmundsbury and Ipswich): the LORD SPEAKER on the Woolsack.
Death of a Member
The Lord Speaker (Baroness Hayman): My Lords, I regret to inform the House of the death of Lord Forte early today. On behalf of the House, I extend our condolences to his family and friends.
Children and Young People: Youth Services
Lord Northbourne asked Her Majesty’s Government:
Whether they have any plans to increase the resources made available to providers of youth services targeted at the 12 to 16 age group.
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Education and Skills (Lord Adonis): Yes, my Lords, the Government make resources available to local authorities for youth work through the formula grants, and for next year those resources will increase by 3.7 per cent. Local authorities in England are budgeting to spend £403 million on youth work in the current year, an increase of £14.4 million on last year and up from £288 million six years ago. Specific changes to youth service spending for 12 to 16 year-olds are not, however, identifiable within those reported figures.
Lord Northbourne: My Lords, I am most grateful to the noble Lord for those encouraging, but not exciting, figures. None the less, they are good news. Am I right in believing that for this year, and in the future, expenditure on the youth service will be swept into the consolidated children’s budget? If that is the case, can the noble Lord give the House a firm assurance that the figures will continue to be presented in such a way that it will be possible for Parliament to tease out what is spent on actual youth services?
Lord Adonis: My Lords, I can give the noble Lord that assurance. Local authorities will still be required to report their spending on youth services separately, and they will, of course, have a particular incentive to see that their spending is maintained in this area and that their services are enhanced. As the noble Lord knows, because of an amendment inserted by this House during our consideration of the Education and Inspections Act 2006, local authorities are under a duty to provide both educational and recreational positive leisure-time activities for young people aged 13 to 19. As part of that duty, young people should be able to access sufficient activities and facilities aimed
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Baroness Morris of Bolton: My Lords, in the aftermath of the tragic killings in south London, everyone interviewed, whatever their age, said that there was nothing for the young to do. What activities have been targeted in areas where gang culture is a problem? How are the Government involving the voluntary sector, which does such wonderful work in this area?
Lord Adonis: My Lords, the noble Baroness raises a point of very great importance for communities where, in historic terms, there is an absence of activities for young people and where a gang culture has developed. As she may know, the new Youth Opportunity Fund and the Youth Capital Fund, which are spending more than £100 million this year and next year, are targeted particularly at areas of higher deprivation. That funding is open to the voluntary sector. Indeed, I have a whole string of activities in Salford, Bolton, Plymouth and South Gloucestershire—I could go on—where those sorts of activities have been funded in projects managed jointly with the voluntary sector, targeting, in particular, highly deprived groups and areas where there are insufficient activities for young people after school and during holiday periods.
Lord Soley: My Lords, my noble friend will know that among that tiny minority of youngsters in the 12 to 16 age group who get caught up in gun crime, the complexity of the problem concerns not only youth facilities, but also educational needs—special educational needs—and parenting. Will he ensure that in dealing with that group there is liaison between the three sections and departments involved with parenting, youth needs and special educational needs in order to get these youngsters into some sort of paid employment at an appropriate time with appropriate skills?
Lord Adonis: My Lords, my noble friend raises an important point. All the activities that he has mentioned come within the purview of my department. Indeed, with the creation of children’s services departments and children’s trusts at local authority level, there is now capacity to join up funding streams and responsibilities in that area much more effectively than previously has been the case. Spending in special educational needs has risen by more than £1 billion in the past five years. Of course, that benefits especially those who exhibit ADHD behavioural issues, when special needs mean that they need special targeted help and support to enable their learning to advance.
Baroness Walmsley: My Lords, does the Minister agree that the transition from primary to secondary school can be a stressful time? Is he aware of the “new roots” rock school in the Midlands, where children go to their new secondary school in the summer holidays
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Lord Adonis: My Lords, I was not aware of that particular school, although the title alone sounds so exciting that I think I shall be visiting it forthwith. I see a lot of interest behind me in paying an early visit to the school. However, the noble Baroness raises an important point about extended services in schools. As she knows, we are encouraging schools to offer a wide range of services after school, including musical activities, through the extended schools programme.
Baroness Howe of Idlicote: My Lords, what the Government have done so far is clearly an improvement, and we wish them well in the future. However, will the Minister draw the attention of local authorities to the cost of a prison placement—£35,700 a year—and ask them whether they should not spend far more on the preventive side of young people’s development in order to reduce recidivism and avoid an escalation of that huge sum?
Lord Adonis: My Lords, the noble Baroness makes an important point. Local authorities are mindful of their wider duties. However, to reiterate the figures I gave in my Answer, spending on youth services is now £403 million a year, up from £288 million only six years ago. That is a significant increase in investment. Of course, the more money we spend up front in seeing that young people have worthwhile activities, the less will later go into the youth custody estate.
The Lord Bishop of St Edmundsbury and Ipswich: My Lords, the Minister mentioned the joint working with the voluntary sector. He will be aware of the huge contribution of the voluntary sector; a thousand paid youth workers in the Church of England alone, and thousands more beyond that. Can the Minister tell us in specific terms what is the Government’s commitment to future voluntary sector resourcing?
Lord Adonis: My Lords, the Youth Opportunity Fund and the Youth Capital Fund, to which I referred earlier, seek to encourage organisations not in the mainstream of providers to become engaged, including a large number of voluntary organisations. We have also strongly encouraged local authorities to engage with the faith communities, including the Church of England, and an increasing number of them are doing so. The Urban Bishops Panel recently met my right honourable friend the Chief Secretary to discuss the churches’ engagement in this area, and I know that the provision of youth services was discussed.
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Railways: Trees
3.08 pm
The Earl of Mar and Kellie asked Her Majesty’s Government:
What steps they are taking to ensure the removal of trees liable to fall on railway lines in high winds.
Lord Bassam of Brighton: My Lords, tree and vegetation management is an operational matter for Network Rail, which clears trees and other vegetation from the line-side where there is a safety or operational need to ensure that the network continues to run reliably. Network Rail and the train operators have measures in place to address the operational risks presented by severe weather, including high winds.
The Earl of Mar and Kellie: My Lords, I thank the Minister for that Answer and, in passing, say that I regret what happened at Lambrigg. I was one of the many passengers of at least nine trains who were unable to leave London for Scotland with GNER on 18 January because a tree fell on to the overhead power line and hit the train preceding mine. That was a predictable incident.
When I recall the ever widening swathes of forest cut down by Scottish Power to protect its power lines and the requirements on landowners to remove vulnerable trees from the vicinity of footpaths, I am disappointed by how Network Rail approaches this much more dangerous situation. A tree could obviously derail a whole train. Does Network Rail have sufficient parliamentary powers to deal with this situation?
Lord Bassam of Brighton: My Lords, before coming to that point I should express our deepest sympathy to those who have been bereaved or seriously injured—and to friends or relatives—by being caught up in the derailment at Grayrigg. I also praise all those involved in the emergency services for doing such a splendid job in mounting the rescue.
Network Rail has more than adequate powers to deal with the issue that the noble Earl raised. Its first priority is, of course, to operate a safe and reliable railway service, and since its setting-up it has made great strides toward that objective; tree clearance is an important part of achieving it.
Lord Berkeley: My Lords, given that the National Trust was reported as wanting to cut down all its trees that could fall on the public on the advice of the Health and Safety Executive, is that executive giving similar advice to the railways and, for that matter, to the highways authorities?
Lord Bassam of Brighton: My Lords, it may well give advice but Network Rail has to take a balanced view. Clearly, we want a pleasant environment surrounding rail lines, whether coming into major conurbations or across the nation, but we and Network Rail also have to ensure that it takes safety issues into careful consideration. It is a balance between environmental management and ensuring the safety of the travelling public.
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Lord Marsh: My Lords, the basic issue is not about trees. It seems to be about the management of the railway, although it is not right to lay any particular claims about other people. Has the time not now come when it would be worth having another examination of the effects of the former Government’s decision on the structure of British Rail?
Lord Bassam of Brighton: My Lords, I sympathise in general with that point of view, but I simply say that the structure that we have is the right one; it is beginning to settle down. There have been vast improvements in how the rail network operates in the last few years, and until the recent sad and tragic accident one could fairly have said that Network Rail had taken great strides toward ensuring that we have a safe, secure and well run rail network.
Lord Hanningfield: My Lords, we all want to commend the emergency services and show regret and tremendous sympathy for all those involved in the recent accident. I know that this is an operational matter for Network Rail, but how are faults reported? There is obviously public concern about that. I hope that the Minister can inform the House whether he knows if they are reported by the lines or track being given an all-clear, and whether they are reported manually or by mechanical IT devices, so that people are aware of problems. Can he enlighten the House about some of those issues?
Lord Bassam of Brighton: My Lords, there is of course a proper system in place for the accurate recording of faults on the track, and Network Rail is responsible for it. I am more than happy to furnish details to the noble Lord about fault-recording processes, and to other noble Lords who are interested.
Lord Bradshaw: My Lords, may I return to the question from my noble friend Lord Mar and Kellie? Can the Minister be quite specific on whether Network Rail’s powers extend to items outside the railway fence that may fall on to the railway and cause damage, trees being among them, or whether its powers are limited to those areas within the fence along the railway lines?
Lord Bassam of Brighton: My Lords, I understand that it has the authority to talk to other, adjacent landowners to try and secure the safe passage of trains through the rail system. I know that it works closely and consults other land users and owners, which it clearly has to do to ensure that it can properly provide a safe path and passage for the rail system.
Lord Campbell of Alloway: My Lords—
Lord Clark of Windermere: My Lords—
The Lord President of the Council (Baroness Amos): My Lords, I suggest that we hear from the Labour Benches.
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Lord Clark of Windermere: My Lords, does my noble friend appreciate that the Forestry Commission, in which I must declare an interest as chairman, inspects all its trees alongside all public highways for safety and then takes remedial action? Could that course of action not sensibly be followed by Network Rail?
Lord Bassam of Brighton: My Lords, I am aware of the Forestry Commission’s work in that regard, and I congratulate the noble Lord on his work on its behalf. As I understand it, Network Rail does exactly that.
Courts: Family Cases
3.16 pm
Lady Saltoun of Abernethy asked Her Majesty’s Government:
Whether they will introduce legislation to ensure that the judgments of judges hearing family care and other similar cases are published, in anonymised form if necessary.
The Secretary of State for Constitutional Affairs and Lord Chancellor (Lord Falconer of Thoroton): My Lords, decisions about the publication of judgments in family cases rest with the courts. The Government are considering the responses to the recent consultation on the openness of family courts, which is being looked at in the context that the interests of children are paramount.
Lady Saltoun of Abernethy: My Lords, when do the Government expect to be able to publish any decisions reached as a result of the responses to the consultation document Confidence and Confidentiality? Do they realise that this matter is quite urgent in the wake of a number of cases where faulty professional evidence led to grave miscarriages of justice that have undermined public confidence?
Lord Falconer of Thoroton: My Lords, we envisage publishing in the spring of this year, recognising that seasons have a strange meaning for government departments. As regards urgency, this is an important issue and we must get it right. Although it is important that people understand what goes on in family courts, it is also important that what happens in the lives of children and families is, for their sake, kept confidential.
Baroness Butler-Sloss: My Lords, I declare an interest as a former family judge. The Minister mentioned the importance of the welfare of the child, but having sufficient transparency to maintain public confidence in the courts is also important. It is a difficult balance. If, on conclusion of the Government’s review of the consultation paper, the media are allowed to sit in on cases, as I hope they will be, does the Minister appreciate the need to give judges the power to exclude them and anyone else from the court in cases of particular sensitivity, such as adoption? Furthermore, is the Minister aware that district judges have very small courts and if the media are invited in, there will be very little, if any, space for them?
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Lord Falconer of Thoroton: My Lord, I agree with the noble and learned Baroness that this is a difficult issue that involves striking a balance. I agree that the interests of the child are paramount. Our proposal was that the press could come in as of right but could be excluded by the judge. Much of the response to the consultation has said that children and other people would not feel comfortable with the starting point being that the press would be in a court where part of their duty is to keep confidential the identity of individual children. It is important that these courts are not secret, but it is very important that people whose lives are being resolved by them feel confident in them.
The Countess of Mar: My Lords, does the Minister appreciate the problems encountered by parents whose children are taken away from them? When they feel that there has been a gross miscarriage of justice, the gagging order applied by these courts means that they can speak only to their MP or their lawyer. I have spoken to many such parents here under parliamentary privilege. They cannot go to anybody but their lawyer, whom they may feel to be inadequate, or their MP, who also may not be able to help, because of the gagging orders. Is there any way that these orders can be relaxed a little so that they can go to other people for good advice?
Lord Falconer of Thoroton: My Lords, that is an important issue. First, applications can be made to the judge. One of the things that came across in the consultation was that, for example, children involved in those processes trust the judge. There is a restriction on the use that can be made of such material because of the potential damage that can be done to a child. It is important that confidentiality is preserved in case, for example, the identity of an adopted child became known in its locality, together with the circumstances that led to its adoption; or, in case in a particular locality it became known that allegations made against the parents were in part proved and the children were still in that locality.
The noble Countess will know how cross individual parents might feel, but the damage to the child would be immense if there was not a restriction on using the material. We have looked at the family procedure rules recently and made some changes. One can apply to the judges, but I am clear that confidentiality must be protected.
Baroness Walmsley: My Lords, does the Minister agree that it would be better for transcripts of judgments to be handed down later rather than in court after the event? Does he share my concern that if judgments are handed down in public, with members of the public being in court, it would be obvious who was being talked about and the participants would feel extremely uncomfortable, which would add to the stress of the situation?
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