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House of Lords
Thursday, 30 November 2006.
The House met at eleven of the clock: the LORD SPEAKER on the Woolsack.
Prayers—Read by the Lord Bishop of London.
HIV/AIDS: G8 Agreement
Baroness Northover asked Her Majesty’s Government:
What progress has been made to fulfil the agreement made at the 2005 G8 conference in Gleneagles to ensure that all those who have need for access to treatment for AIDS do so by 2010.
The Lord President of the Council (Baroness Amos): My Lords, following the G8 agreement, in June this year the UN General Assembly agreed the goal of universal access to comprehensive prevention programmes, treatment, care and support by 2010. Countries pledged to set ambitious national targets, including interim targets for 2008. So far, 84 countries have provided targets, 44 of them covering prevention, treatment and care. These plans need to be reviewed so that the international community, with partner governments, can fund effective national plans.
Baroness Northover: My Lords, I thank the noble Baroness for that reply and for her and DfID’s commitment to fighting this disease. However, despite the Gleneagles pledge, there is already a shortfall of $8 billion and 80 per cent of adults and 95 per cent of children do not have access to treatment. Does she agree that that is catastrophic in terms of the social, economic and human impact of the disease? Does she further agree that the G8 needs to bring forward a plan detailing exactly when, by whom and how the funding gap will be closed so that all have access to treatment by 2010?
Baroness Amos: My Lords, I agree with the noble Baroness that we need to ensure that there are national plans and that they are fully costed and funded. This year, the UN made a commitment that no plans which were costed and effective in covering prevention and care would remain unfunded. That remains our commitment. They have to be national plans, which are then reviewed and supported through the international community. We have made good progress, with 84 plans in place and 44 of them covering the range. We will have to keep up the pressure, but the commitment has to be to those national plans rather than to one global international plan.
Baroness Whitaker: My Lords, does my noble friend agree that one of the main problems in dealing with AIDS is fear and discrimination, which tend to deter people, particularly women, from coming forward so that they miss out on treatment which
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Baroness Amos: My Lords, my noble friend is quite right. We need to tackle the stigma of those living with HIV/AIDS. That is the focus of the DfID campaign for tomorrow, which is World AIDS Day. The stigma and discrimination, of course, affect those who are most vulnerable. We must challenge people’s attitudes towards those living with HIV/AIDS, challenge discrimination and promote and protect human rights in policy and legislation. DfID is supporting approximately 100 projects and programmes, many of which aim to change people’s attitudes.
Lord Fowler: My Lords, I congratulate DfID on the work that it has done. In an area like global warming, the Government rightly place emphasis on this country setting an example at home. Does the Minister think that the lack of effective campaigning on HIV/AIDS and sexual health in the United Kingdom and the cutting back of promised funding is the right way to show commitment to the worldwide battle?
Baroness Amos: My Lords, the Government are in fact leading the way. The noble Lord may know that my colleague in the Department of Health launched a campaign this month looking at HIV/AIDS and sexually transmitted diseases. We are investing substantial additional resources in sexual health—it is one of the six key priorities for the NHS in 2006-07—but there continue to be issues about the funding of the campaign in the longer term. We are seeking to review the impact of the campaign, which was launched only on 20 November, and we shall then look at what more needs to be done as regards our campaigning priorities.
Baroness Masham of Ilton: My Lords, following on from the previous question, is the Minister aware that the number of people in the UK with HIV/AIDS is still increasing? Many of those people are very poor and are having difficulties.
Baroness Amos: My Lords, the noble Baroness is quite right. In 2005, there were 7,450 new diagnoses. That is only a small increase from 2003, but it is more than double the number of diagnoses in 2000. Nearly three-quarters of those newly diagnosed with HIV/AIDS probably acquired infections on the African continent. We must look at that link and our work on the African continent is clearly important. On poverty, we will continue to support those families and individuals.
Lord McColl of Dulwich: My Lords, do the Government acknowledge that the Ugandan campaign of AVC has been highly successful in reducing from 31 per cent to 5 per cent the incidence of HIV/AIDS among pregnant women? Would the Government seek to support such a campaign?
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Baroness Amos: My Lords, the noble Lord knows that we support a comprehensive approach to HIV/AIDS prevention. That includes not only looking at abstinence, but also recognising the reality of people’s sexual practice and dealing with it, and looking at the support that must be given to the health sector overall as well as treatment, vaccination and so on.
Lord Wallace of Saltaire: My Lords, the number of children in Africa with HIV/AIDS is not the major issue but it is still an important and difficult one. To what extent are the Government giving it attention and are they pressing drug companies to pay sufficient attention to it in the treatments offered?
Baroness Amos: My Lords, we are looking at the issue of children and also at the issue of women and transmission between women and children. Last year, we organised a global partners forum on children affected by HIV/AIDS and we are pressing the drugs companies on this point. We need a different kind of treatment for children than for adults.
Euro
11.14 am
Lord Watson of Richmond asked Her Majesty’s Government:
Lord McKenzie of Luton: My Lords, the Government’s policy on membership of the single currency was set out by the Chancellor in his Statement to the House of Commons in October 1997, and again in his Statement on the five tests assessment in June 2003. The Chancellor announced in Budget 2006:
“The Government does not propose a euro assessment to be initiated at the time of this Budget. The Treasury will again review the situation at Budget time next year”.
Lord Watson of Richmond: My Lords, I am grateful to the Minister for that reply, although it was vague in many ways. However, it leads me on to my question. This issue is important, given that events are moving and, in particular, given that the owner of the five tests is poised to move from No. 11 to No. 10. If he does so, will we have more precision and urgency in this matter, recognising that the situation is changing in many important regards, or are the five tests in practice a mask behind which there is a determination that we will not join the euro-zone?
Lord McKenzie of Luton: My Lords, I stress that this is the policy of the whole Labour Government. On whether the policy tests are a mask for some other policy, the answer is no. The Government have clearly set their policy on joining the euro when conditions are right, when it is in the country’s economic interest to do so and when the case is clear and unequivocal. The five tests are our stability guarantee. If we can satisfy them, the issue will be put to Parliament and to the country in a referendum.
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Lord Howarth of Newport: My Lords, is it not a good job that we have not been part of this system and that the Monetary Policy Committee of the Bank of England has been free to manage conditions to promote continuing growth, low inflation and low unemployment in this country, in contrast to the economic stagnation of, for example, Germany? Given the difficulty of hitting on an interest rate that is appropriate at the same time for industry in south-east Wales and for the housing market in south-east England, is not the project for a single interest rate across a large part of the continent of Europe doomed to failure?
Lord McKenzie of Luton: My Lords, we cannot conclude that the policy of a single interest rate is inevitably doomed to failure. It drives the need for flexibility and innovation in the economies that are potentially part of that zone. My noble friend is absolutely right to say that the assessment made in June 2003 was spot on. The growth rate in the period 2001 to 2005 was on average 2.5 per cent in the UK, 2.4 per cent in the US and 1.4 per cent in the euro area. There are key structural issues that need to be addressed by European economies.
Lord Trimble: My Lords, is there not more to the point made by the noble Lord, Lord Howarth of Newport, in that the criteria set for the Bank of England are not just about monetary stability but also about promoting growth? That is in sharp contrast to the criteria of the European Central Bank, which operates purely in terms of monetary stability. Even without the five tests, that factor alone would mean that it would not be right for us to go into the euro-zone while the European Central Bank operates on a completely different basis from that of the Bank of England.
Lord McKenzie of Luton: My Lords, it is right to say that the mandates for the Bank of England and the European Central Bank are not identical. In particular, the European Central Bank does not have an explicit symmetric target for inflation. Both the Bank of England and the ECB are required to have regard to growth and employment. If you look at the minutes of the Bank of England, you will see that those issues are a factor in its deliberations.
Baroness Noakes: My Lords, these Benches would like to congratulate the Chancellor on inventing and then manipulating the five tests in such a way as to keep us out of the euro for the past six years. Does the Minister agree that in practice there is only one test for euro entry, which is whether it is good for the British economy? Does he also agree that all the evidence to date shows that the massive costs of entry would not be outweighed by the relatively small benefits that might accrue?
Lord McKenzie of Luton: My Lords, I agree that the test is whether joining is in our national and economic interest and whether the case is clear and unambiguous. The potential benefits of joining are
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Lord Newby: My Lords, does the Minister accept that a major cost of being outside the euro-zone is the major lack and loss of political influence for the UK, because the British Chancellor is simply not at the table when many of the key economic decisions facing the whole of Europe are being determined? Will he ensure that, if and when there is a further assessment of our membership of the euro-zone, the political consequences of not being a member are given due weight?
Lord McKenzie of Luton: My Lords, it is not correct to say that we have not been at the forefront of political influence in Europe. We certainly were through the period of our presidency of the Union and we are at the forefront of many of the key developments. This Government have been pressing Europe to make the structural changes in its economies that are crucial for the success of the euro and to face the wider issues of globalisation.
Lord Pearson of Rannoch: My Lords, have the Government given any further thought to what is perhaps the euro-zone’s most important long-term design fault, which is the lack of a federal budget? When the noble Lord tries to defend the single interest rate, would he care to comment on the predicament in which Italy finds herself today?
Lord McKenzie of Luton: Well, my Lords, in defending a single interest rate, I point out the benefits that that can have in certain circumstances, but a couple of answers previously I tried to explain that that must be put in the balance against all other economic considerations. A single federal budget is not on the agenda, as far as I am aware.
Somalia
11.21 am
Lord Avebury asked Her Majesty’s Government:
What representations they are making to the United Nations Security Council concerning the threat of international conflict in Somalia.
Baroness Royall of Blaisdon: My Lords, we are working closely with our international partners in the UN Security Council to respond to threatened conflict in the Horn of Africa, including confrontation between the transitional federal Government and the Union of Islamic Courts and the continuing violation of the UN arms embargo on that country.
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Lord Avebury: My Lords, what is the Government's response to the warning by the International Crisis Group that foreign military intervention, as advocated by the US in a draft Security Council resolution, would be likely to cause further desertions from the TFG and even to prompt military action by the Islamic courts against their remaining stronghold of Baidoa? Would it not be perverse if the Security Council, having only yesterday passed a resolution condemning the significant increase in the flow of weapons to Somalia in contravention of the arms embargo imposed as long ago as 1992, were now itself to endorse the US call for the embargo to be lifted in favour of the TFG?
Baroness Royall of Blaisdon: My Lords, these are hugely complex issues in a very complex region where many proxy wars are being fought in the small, strategic country of Somalia. Regional countries and the African Union have indeed asked the UN Security Council to provide an exemption for a peace support operation. No one is suggesting lifting the arms embargo more extensively. We are working with our colleagues in the UN and discussing the suggested Security Council resolution. We will continue to work with our colleagues to try to find a peaceful solution to the troubles of that country.
Baroness Whitaker: My Lords, does not my noble friend agree that the political issues go far wider than the Somalian conflict itself? How should we approach their strategic nature?
Baroness Royall of Blaisdon: My Lords, the issues that are tearing the world apart at the moment are being played out in Somalia. The Horn of Africa is in great danger unless we deal with the situation very sensitively and delicately in the UN. Another conflict would be disastrous for Somalia and the wider region. We fundamentally do not believe that there can be any military solution in Somalia. We support the Arab League-sponsored Khartoum dialogue and urge all parties to engage constructively and to return to negotiations in Khartoum, or some other mutually agreeable location.
Lord Howell of Guildford: My Lords, the Minister is right that the situation is very complex. The noble Lord’s Question rightly refers to international conflict. That is not the position now, and I value the Minister’s comments that both Ethiopia and Eritrea are being rapidly sucked into this disastrous conflict, that there is a huge Somalian minority in Ethiopia and clearly the country feels threatened, and that enormous dangers portend, as the Minister has indicated, the turning of the whole of the Horn of Africa into yet another area of turbulence equal to the Middle East. Can she say what information we have on active terrorist involvement in all these areas at the moment? Are there signs that the al-Qaeda franchise or other terrorists groups are operating, and how can she most clearly define Britain’s own interest in seeking to co-operate with other countries through the UN and elsewhere to prevent yet another major conflagration?
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Baroness Royall of Blaisdon: My Lords, the noble Lord mentioned the important issue of Ethiopia. We are aware of reports of Ethiopian and other foreign troops in Somalia. UK officials have delivered very strong messages to the Ethiopians to hold back from war. In respect of the wider issues of global terrorism, we monitor all the reports that are coming forward. We speak to our partners, the US, and our partners in the European Union very often on this issue. We are watching and we are ready to act when necessary; but we monitor the situation very closely.
Lord Chidgey: My Lords, the Minister will be aware that, out of the eight countries that have been accused of breaking the arms embargo, five are African states. This brings me to another point: should not the Government be discussing these issues with the African Union whose membership, after all, is pledged to support good governance, transparency, the rule of law and democracy? Surely the individual nation states of the African Union should put the interests of their continent before their regional self-interest. Should not the Government make that point to the African Union?
Baroness Royall of Blaisdon: My Lords, the noble Lord is absolutely right. Indeed, we do discuss these issues with the African Union. One of our desires for Somalia is that there should be peace and good governance. These are precisely the issues that we talk to our colleagues in the African Union about, and we will continue to do so.
Lord Anderson of Swansea: My Lords, I have just returned from Somalia on a governance mission. Is the Minister aware that many observers in the region are highly critical of the gung-ho attitude of the US Government and their willingness to back what is virtually a dead horse in the transitional Government, and that ultimately we will have to talk to the courts? What is her response to this analysis?
Baroness Royall of Blaisdon: My Lords, we believe that the transitional federal charter and the institutions created under it are the only basis for reconciliation and political progress in Somalia. We do not believe that the international community should permit those institutions to be removed by force. We deplore what is happening in Somalia and the force that is being used by the courts, because they are primarily supported by one clan and have not yet stated their acceptance of the transitional federal charter as the basis for inclusive political institutions. However, we do hope to continue dialogue with the less extremist elements of the courts.
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