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Lord Ezra: My Lords, I thank the noble Lord for that reply. Does he agree that generally the installation of new CHP plant has stagnated over the past three years or so, with one or two exceptions, and that has happened even though the Government have recognised CHP as one of the most cost-effective options for carbon abatement? Furthermore, does he accept that, even though we are running behind target, the saving in carbon emissions by CHP already installed is running at around 4,000 tonnes of carbon per annum, and that could be doubled if the Government's target of 10 megawatts could be achieved by 2010? Does that not call for a new initiative such as a CHP commitment similar to the existing renewables commitment, which I pressed for as far back as five years ago, when we were debating the Utilities Act 2000?
Lord Whitty: My Lords, I certainly agree with the noble Lord's penultimate point that CHP already provides a significant carbon saving and that that would make a very significant contribution to achieving the target. The noble Lord's first point is also right: progress in the underlying rate of take-up of CHP over the past three years has been disappointing, with a few important exceptions, due largely to the relative price of gas and electricity moving in the wrong direction.
We are looking at all options for improving support for CHP and discussing with the industry which of them we could pursue. The energy commitment potentially brings CHP into conflict with the renewables obligation. It is important that we continue to seek a way of giving additional support to the industry.
Lord Dixon-Smith: My Lords, the Minister is correct to say that we are roughly halfway to the 2010 target, but that is only just above the 2000 target. So although we are halfway to 2010 in time, our output for combined heat and power has scarcely increased. What further steps do the Government have in mind to resuscitate that rather moribund situation?
Lord Whitty: My Lords, the situation is not quite as bad as the noble Lord suggests. Largely because of one major new plant coming on line quite recently, we are
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ahead of the 2000 target. Nevertheless, there has been a slowdown; it is important that the industry picks up. Many of the support mechanisms were outlined in the CHP strategy, but, as I said in response to the noble Lord, Lord Ezra, we must look at additional potential support for the sector and hope that the relative prices of electricity and gas make it more commercially advantageous to install CHP.
Lord Stoddart of Swindon: My Lords, surely the noble Lord, Lord Ezra, is absolutely right in pursuing the question of combined heat and power, since the overall thermal efficiency of power stations is virtually doubled by employing CHP. Will the Government give the matter considerably more priority, especially given that Scotland is, apparently, to be defaced by thousands of wind turbines? The Lake District is to be similarly destroyed. I hope that the Government can get their priorities right.
Lord Whitty: My Lords, I agreed with the first part of what my noble ex-friend said: we should give priority to it. We are giving priority to it. Whatever your views on wind farms, it is a complete diversion to say that, by encouraging renewables technology, we are undermining CHP. The two are not in conflict; both are contributions to a low-carbon economy. As noble Lords will know, I am strongly in favour of continuing to encourage wind farm technology.
Lord Mackie of Benshie: My Lords, can the noble Lord tell us whether the local communities welcome or do not welcome the schemes?
Lord Whitty: My Lords, the plans for wind farms and, indeed, CHP installations go through the normal planning process. Most of them have succeeded in that process, albeit slightly less quickly than might have been hoped. The views of the local community are taken fully into account.
The Countess of Mar: My Lords, what progress is being made towards encouraging local authorities to put in incinerators with combined heat and power facilities? What measures are being taken to overcome public objections caused by emissions from chimneys?
Lord Whitty: My Lords, the noble Countess is correct to say that there is misguided opposition to some of the proposals for incinerators using both CHP and other advanced technologies. The emissions from such incinerators are very low risk, in the context of the cutting edge of technology. From the point of view of waste disposal and carbon saving, it would be helpful if there could be more such installations.
Again, one must take the view of the local community into account, but the opposite view, which is that they can make a positive contribution, must also be heard.
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Railway Network
Lord Bradshaw asked Her Majesty's Government:
Lord Davies of Oldham: My Lords, the Government support continued growth in the use of the railway network by making the best use of existing capacity through measures such as route utilisation strategies and ensuring that the railway operates as efficiently as possible.
We also need to plan for the long term, when increased capacity may be needed. My right honourable friend the Secretary of State for Transport hopes to make an announcement soon on the Government's thinking on future strategy for the network.
Lord Bradshaw: My Lords, I thank the noble Lord for the encouraging nature of his reply. A study was undertaken by W S Atkins of the potential for a new high-speed line from London to the north of England. That was completed at the end of 2003. It showed a high cost benefit ratio and identified considerable relief for airlines, roads and moving freight. Do the Government have plans to develop the W S Atkins scheme further? Obviously, it is not ready to be implemented, but one would hope that it, at least, is part of the Government's forward thinking.
Lord Davies of Oldham: My Lords, the noble Lord has lighted on one of the more ambitious possible innovations in railway development. He will recognise that the creation of a specially dedicated track for high-speed trains running north to south is somewhat in the longer term. However, as he said, a study was completed in 2003, and I can assure the House that it is under active consideration. The noble Lord will recognise that substantial resources would need to be committed to make the proposal realistic.
Lord Faulkner of Worcester: My Lords, is my noble friend aware of how much support there was for the initiative taken by the SRA last year to develop community railways, the less glamorous rural services? Can he give an assurance that, when the responsibilities of the SRA transfer to the department, the initiative will be continued and the future of those lines will not be put at risk?
Lord Davies of Oldham: My Lords, we are eager to continue the consultation process which the SRA developed with regard to community railways because, by definition, it requires the widest-possible participation from a local area or region in the development of railway services. However, I can assure my noble friend that the new arrangements, which of course will be discussed when the Railways Bill comes before this House in the fairly near future, will take account of this necessity.
Lord Renton: My Lords, would it help the Government to know that having driven 70 miles each
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way to and from London for many, many years, I had to give up driving because I found myself falling asleep one day? Since then, I have used the railway for 65 miles each way. It has never been overcrowded, and the journey has taken only 65 minutes each way, although half a dozen stops have to be made.
Lord Davies of Oldham: My Lords, I am grateful for that assurance of how successfully we are improving the railway service, and no one should the railways seek to serve better than the noble Lord. I emphasise that, when every noble Lord in the House can testify to the same extent about the success of our suburban and city network services, I will be a happy representative of the Government.
Lord Snape: My Lords, will the Minister accept that I perhaps cannot be as helpful as the previous speaker on this matter? There is at least one clause in the Railways Bill, which is in another place, that would make it easier for the Government to contract rather than expand the railways. Could he offer us any comfort as far as that clause is concerned?
I have a further question about freight railways. Do the Government have any plans to restore freight facilities grants in England? They are paid in Scotland. Is it not a rather bizarre situation that the Scots receive them and the English do not?
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