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Lady Saltoun of Abernethy: My Lords, is the noble and learned Lord aware that an unfortunate side effect has been the propensity of social workers and some doctors to assume the worst when a child is brought in with an injury? When their child injures itself, many parents are now terrified to take it to the doctor, because they are afraid that they will be accused of having battered the child and that the fact of their child having injured itself will not be believed. In fact, one young couple I know were so frightened to take their child to the doctor that they drove him 200 miles to the
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mother's father, who, luckily, happened to be a doctor. That will lead to children suffering and possibly dying from injuries needlessly.
It is also very important that we remember that it is not only the mother—the parents—of a child who has died who suffer appallingly. As the noble Lord, Lord Kingsland, said, it is also the other children who, in most such cases, are taken into care and then put up for adoption. Even if the parents are later cleared, those children, having been adopted, can probably never be restored to them.
Lord Goldsmith: My Lords, I absolutely agree with the noble Lady that it is extremely important that parents whose child suffers an injury seek medical attention where appropriate. I hope that the review that I have undertaken will give confidence that the law is determined to see that, although children need protection, it is only in cases where there is clear evidence of unlawful conduct that a parent need worry about any form of criminal prosecution. I hope that that is clear.
I also entirely agree with the noble Lady that, although the loss of a child is a tragedy for the parents, it can deeply affect other members of the family as well. She mentioned siblings, but there are others too—grandparents and other close relatives—who may be devastated and suffer grave loss as a result of such tragedies. So I entirely agree with the noble Baroness about that as well.
Lord Mayhew of Twysden: My Lords, while congratulating the noble and learned Lord the Attorney-General on what seems to be his exemplary handling of this matter, may I ask about the 28 cases in which he has told us that cause for concern has been identified so as to warrant further consideration? Will he be able to ensure that in all cases in which the convicted defendant decides to go directly to the Court of Appeal, legal aid will be available? That would seem to be only just because, in the circumstances, no blame for what may have happened can possibly be said to have attached to the defendant.
Lord Goldsmith: My Lords, the noble and learned Lord makes a very important point. As he will know, having occupied this position, the Attorney-General does not control the legal aid budget but, if any case is brought to my attention in which it appears that one of those 28 persons wants to go to the Court of Appeal and there is a difficulty about legal aid, I will certainly do my best to make representations to correct the situation, and do so quickly.
Lord Chan: My Lords, in welcoming this report, there are obviously lessons here for the medical profession in particular—for paediatricians and doctors in accident and emergency units. Will the noble and learned Lord issue some advice for doctors arising from his review?
Lord Goldsmith: My Lords, I am grateful for the noble Lord's question. There are a number of strands of work which both are being and need to be undertaken. There
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is the question of accreditation of appropriate experts. There is the question of training of appropriate experts. That is partly for the professional bodies that either exist at present or are being set up, such as the council of forensic pathologists, to take into account.
It is also extremely important that the message is sent out—it is there already but it is so important that it needs to be emphasised—that the purpose of expert evidence, whether from a doctor or any other experienced person, is to assist the court to reach a just verdict. It is important to disclose information that may be counter to one's opinion, to demonstrate the doubts that there may be in relation to the opinion, and at all times to strive to give the court the best help that one can to reach that just verdict. That is perhaps the most important message.
Baroness Walmsley: My Lords, I ask the noble and learned Lord to cast his mind forward to the 28 cases, and even the 89 shaken baby cases and the surviving children of the family. What systems will be put in place to decide on the future of such children, should the defendant be acquitted in future? What structures will be put in place to support the family in its reintegration? Will the best interests of the child be paramount and what sort of support will be given to the family for the future, which will clearly be difficult, and to any future children born to that family, following the enormous trauma to the mother?
Lord Goldsmith: My Lords, the noble Baroness asks very important questions; I recognise that immediately. She also rightly identifies the key consideration on the civil side, the family side: the best interests of the child should determine the outcome. As for the structure for considering the position in the event that a conviction is overturned, I believe that the existing requirements to review care plans would be appropriate.
We have already debated in this House the difficulties where, for example, a child has already been adopted and the problem that one then has about unsettling arrangements that have been made for the child. That is very different from a criminal case, but those who are responsible generally for the welfare of families—often local authorities—will need to look sensitively at the case of any such people to consider whether any changes need to be made, what support the family requires and how that can be given.
Baroness Masham of Ilton: My Lords, in how many cases of shaken baby syndrome is alcohol involved? When I was a member of the board of visitors of a young offenders' institution, one young man said to me that when he came back from the pub, the baby was crying and he used to pick it up and shake it. He was very worried about that. I wonder how many similar cases there are involving shaken baby syndrome and alcohol.
Lord Goldsmith: My Lords, I cannot answer that precise question, but I regret to say that I must agree with the noble Baroness that there are parents who commit acts of violence against children exacerbated
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by alcohol. There is no doubt about that, and very sad it is too. We must keep in mind that children need the protection of the law precisely because there will be circumstances, which may include being the worse for wear for drink, that will lead a parent to do something that involves unlawful violence.
Baroness Howarth of Breckland: My Lords, I declare an interest as the deputy chairman of the Children and Family Court Advisory and Support Service. Does the noble and learned Lord acknowledge the serious difficulty of making assessments in such cases and recognise how carefully the social work profession and doctors have to work towards making decisions? Does he also acknowledge that, although we are concerned about any injustice to parents, there is an equal danger that social workers may become so concerned about the consequences of their actions that they may not take appropriate action to protect children, which is the primary task that we must take forward?
Lord Goldsmith: My Lords, I readily acknowledge both points made by the noble Baroness. It is a difficult and heavy responsibility for those who are charged with the welfare of children to weigh up, on the one hand, the risk of making a wrong judgment against a parent and, on the other, ensuring the protection and safety of the child in question. I pay tribute to the high professionalism of those who carry out that difficult job.
Lord Lewis of Newnham: My Lords, the noble and learned Lord took the figure of 10 years for looking into these cases. Is there a significant possibility that a group of people beyond that period will have to live with that accusation, which is very difficult for them to accept? I realise that one can go so far, but 10 years takes a 20 year-old into a 30-year period. There could still be a significant number of people who are accused and basically innocent.
Lord Goldsmith: My Lords, first, as I said in answer to earlier questions, the advice that I received, which I have no reason not to accept entirely, is that 10 years would pick up all those cases where someone was still in custody. One must bear in mind that 10 years in prison is normally the equivalent of a 20-year prison term, which would be a very long term for a case of domestic murder of a child. I notice that the noble Lord, Lord Condon, who knows a lot about the issue, is nodding in agreement. There is no reason to believe that it was not the right figure to take; it had to be practical.
Secondly, the provision in no way prevents someone who believes that he or she has been wrongly convicted taking the matter to the Court of Appeal, the CCRC or even referring the case to me for possible further consideration. One possible benefit of making the matter known publicly is that someone may see it in the newspapers, and if they harbour the sort of concern to which the noble Lord refers, they can take it up.
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