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Lord Dykes: My Lords, coming to this place after 27 years in the other place, I naively expected that one would get away from the pre-Maastricht, Maastricht and immediately post-Maastricht argumentation about the European Union.
I disagree with the pessimistic conclusions of the noble Lord, Lord Biffen, on what has happened so far in the European Union's development. It has been a remarkable exercise. It seems daunting to us all that the European Union now comprises 25 countries and will increase yet again fairly shortly. It seems a lot to digest in a relatively short time, but surely the precise purpose of the European convention, its parameters and content is to explain the relationships between the nation states. There seems to have been a diminution neither of chancery politics between sovereign countries nor of the intrinsic sovereignty of those member states as a result of the convention. Indeed, their reinforcement has depressed some of the super-federalists. Therefore, the noble Lord, Lord Biffen, need not worry too much about that, I hope.
The convention provides for a further expansion, once the people throughout the existing member states have ratified the constitution. That will give us the
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opportunity to consider the huge task of absorbing a country such as Turkey. I add my thanks to the noble Lord, Lord Cobbold, both for his good fortune in the ballot and for his initiative in choosing this major subject.
Originally, I shared the massive consternation at the idea of Turkey's accession, because it seemed such a huge and indigestible concept, and was coming to a conclusion against it. In the light of more information, expectations and knowledge of such a fascinating and brilliant country—alas, I have been there only once, and only to Istanbul—I think that Turkey's future membership will be an enormous advantage to the Union.
Time does not allow us to go into the hugely complex details but Turkey's accession will be a massive task. No one needs to worry about the Turks criticising us—their Prime Minister was wrong to imply that—if the existing European member states did not say that there were huge tasks involved in the integration of Turkey into the European Union.
I agree entirely with the remarks of the noble Lord, Lord Clinton-Davis, about the remarkable legislation already introduced in Turkey. However, that is legislation on Turkey's statute book, or whatever it is called in that constitutional system, and it has not yet been implemented. A long time will be needed to see how Turkey measures up. The behaviour of the military has started to be inspiring and positive—none the less, more evidence will be needed. The human rights picture has only just begun to be mitigated by both legislation and administrative decisions; there is a lot more to come.
The concept of Turkey absorbing the whole acquis communitaire sounds like a nightmare both for the bureaucrats involved and for politicians dealing with the matter in all the member states. The position of France is now coloured adversely by respondents in opinion polls there being seemingly dead against Turkish membership. President Chirac has taken initiatives to try to improve that position in due course. Those are huge problems.
The oppression of the Kurds and all that has happened in eastern Turkey cannot just be conveniently forgotten rapidly as a result of what has occurred in the recent advent of an application. I feel that the summit will agree to open the talks; that is the general expectation. It is also generally expected that it will take a long time to go through all those negotiations. The Turks must therefore expect to be patient. They must educate their own public about the need for patience, not that the existing European Union needs to address them in any condescending way. Turkey has a lot to offer if it is possible for that country to be absorbed into the European Union. Ultimately, I am optimistic, although that might take the old-fashioned, classical definition of "optimism": a 97 year-old man who got married for the fifth time and deliberately bought a new house near a school. I like to be more positive than that; nevertheless, the Turks must be realistic.
The question of the death penalty's removal is very encouraging, as has been mentioned. Other factors related to the social legislation are paving the way for
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Turkey's eventual entry. This will be a massive exercise; indeed, the biggest ever carried out by the Union. We must see what happens to future growth rates and so on in Turkey, particularly eastern Turkey, and how people on very low incomes—again, primarily in eastern Turkey—can be absorbed into the economic processes of the Union. We must be optimistic, because there is so much at stake. I believe that the Muslim contribution from this amazing country will be of enormous significance and benefit to the European Union.
Baroness D'Souza: My Lords, I, too, thank the noble Lord, Lord Cobbold, for bringing about this important and timely debate. I declare an interest, having worked in Turkey in the 1980s under the auspices of what was then the Overseas Development Administration, now the Department for International Development. I also worked there in the 1990s. During the latter period, I was frequently, although mercifully for very brief periods, a guest of the government—in other words, a detainee.
There appears to be general consensus that the human rights record in Turkey has improved in the past few years. As previous speakers have said, this improvement is partly attributable to the promise—and, indeed, the hope—of accession to the European Union. My friends and colleagues in Turkey remind me that in the run-up to the last discussions about EU membership, which proved unsuccessful, the human rights record similarly improved. However, once turned down, there was a distressing and marked deterioration in human rights violations, specifically the widespread practice of torture.
Turkey has for many years held an unenviable record on the use of torture. In the 20 years since 1980, more than 400 citizens have died as a result of torture, with 45 deaths in 1994 alone. In the first four months of this year there were 50 complaints of torture and, in the first six months, the Turkish Human Rights Association reported 692 incidents of torture. As of August of this year, the Turkish Human Rights Foundation received 597 requests for medical treatment as a result of torture.
Some of those cases concern the unlawful detention and abuse of children. For example, on 20 November, near Diyarbakir in south-eastern Turkey, a 12 year-old child and his father were shot from less than half a metre and killed by the police, who then laid weapons on their bodies claiming that they were terrorists. That is refuted by many witnesses and several human rights organisations. The inquiry into that double murder is being held in secret.
Despite continuing concerns about violations of human rights, Turkey now has all the appropriate laws and mechanisms to deal with them. The issue is one of political will to implement the law. Again, it is believed by those who have expertise on Turkey that that could be achieved rather easily by introducing or strengthening three vital mechanisms.
First, there should be effective and routine internal supervision of police stations; secondly, there should be a readiness on the part of the justice, interior and
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prime ministries to respond rapidly when there are allegations of torture; and, thirdly, there should be a willingness to allow independent visits by international non-governmental organisations to police stations and detention facilities. Those measures would give us all confidence in the Turkish Government's promise of "zero tolerance for torture" in the run-up to accession negotiations.
There should be no let-up in the pressure being brought to bear on the Turkish Government to end the culture of impunity, to eradicate the practice of torture, to ensure free and fair trials and to stop the suppression of free speech, particularly in the east of Turkey, where any criticism of state authority or expression of ethnic identity still run the risk of official persecution.
I believe that accession negotiations should begin and that now, and in the years leading up to accession, the strongest possible pressure from the member states of the European Union could be highly effective. I therefore ask that the Minister use all the influence at her disposal to help to bring Turkey out of its sometimes medieval past into a modern Europe where the rule of law prevails.
Lord Rogan: My Lords, I am grateful to my noble friend Lord Cobbold for the opportunity to give my support to the Republic of Turkey's bid to become a full member of the European Union. Moves to date aimed at blocking Turkish accession to Europe's political and economic union have sent an extremely negative message to the Islamic world. It is a message that contradicts the very ideals of Western democracy, which are the bedrock of our society—ideals that we are fighting for in Iraq.
Surely religious considerations should be of little or no relevance to the debate. They are a side issue, as Turkey is well on its way to having earned its place at the European table. It is a country that has travelled a long way since the first president of the republic, Kemal Atatürk, drove through his secularist modernising reforms in the 1920s.
Since then, Turkey has stood alongside the allies in the Second World War, stood with the West during the long decades of the Cold War and stands today with us in our global war on terror. But let us not forget that in orientating itself towards the West, Turkey more often than not turned its back on the East and its former Ottoman territories.
Turkey, however, remains today as it was for centuries—a stanchion between the civilisations of the East and the West. We often hear of the "clash of civilisations" and the argument that democracy is unsuitable for Muslim or Islamic countries. Yet Turkey, a country in which roughly 90 per cent of the population are Muslims, has provided the perfect foil to that argument. Lebanon was another example, but I need not remind the House where western neglect left that democracy.
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If we turn our back on Turkey in the coming decade, we will show the Islamic world that it is the West that is ill prepared for Muslim democracies and not vice versa. The problem is that there are some member states in the European Union that are opposed to Turkey's accession as a full member because it is a Muslim country, regardless of its ability to meet the entrance criteria.
Setting religion aside and focusing on the issues more pertinent to the debate, it is imperative that Turkey is successful in its efforts to join the European Union. Its security is fundamental to the defence interests of the United Kingdom and to Europe as a whole. Turkey remains a key security partner of NATO and Europe. It is now more important than ever that Turkey, with the largest army in Europe, plays a full role in European decision making on security issues—a task that it can fulfil only by taking up full membership of the European Union. One must also consider the economic benefits that will flow from Turkey's accession to the Union, which will help the other member states as well as Turkey.
Turkey has progressively reformed its society, its constitution, its religious affairs, and its human rights record. It has recently supported the Annan plan, alongside the Turkish Cypriot community in northern Cyprus, in its efforts to resolve that long-standing ethnic conflict through reunification.
The present Turkish Government have developed their economy, delivered political stability, reformed the penal code and have addressed women's rights and the position of the Kurdish minority. Yet, in the face of all of that, we still hear regular cries that the Turks have not done enough. The cry goes out time and again that the Turks must do yet more.
Certain member states are threatening to veto Turkey's inclusion even if it meets all the entry criteria. To do so would be an act of great folly. It would be an act that would guarantee that Turkey became once again the "sick man of Europe".
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