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Lord Lyell: I am grateful to the Minister. I hope that she is convinced that Liverpool, let alone London, is near enough for the rush that might be necessary. I thought of an accidental bite from the Minister's pet cobra or rattle snake. I have flown from Belfast to Liverpool and the Isle of Man, with unfavourable climactic conditions and I am sure that the noble Baroness has taken all the necessary steps. Her word will reassure those who have a trillion-to-one chance of being bitten by one of these snakes that Liverpool will deliver what the Royal Victoria Hospital needs.
Baroness Amos: Of course, the Royal Victoria Hospital Belfast is the first stop.
On Question, Motion agreed to.
Vehicle Testing (Temporary Exemptions) (Northern Ireland) Order 2004
Baroness Amos: I beg to move that the Grand Committee do report to the House that it has considered the draft Vehicle Testing (Temporary Exemptions) (Northern Ireland) Order 2004.
The order would enable the Department of the Environment in Northern Ireland to make regulations to provide for the issue of certificates for temporary exemption, exempting private cars and motor cycles from the requirements of normal testing for a specified temporary period and to permit such certificates to be acceptable documentary evidence for the purpose of obtaining vehicle excise licences.
Certificates of temporary exemption will be issued as an alternative to vehicle test certificates in exceptional circumstances. "Exceptional circumstances" means a
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failure in the supply of essential services or other unexpected happenings such as a fire, accident or industrial action.
The power to issue certificates already exists for goods vehicles, but no such contingency arrangements are available for private cars and motorcycles. The order will regularise that position. The order will alleviate some of the pressures created as a result of the industrial action which is currently having an impact on the capacity of the Driver and Vehicle Testing Agency in Northern Ireland to deliver normal vehicle testing services. This has resulted in many drivers being unable to use their vehicles legally on the roads or to get vehicle excise licences. It is also impacting adversely on the Northern Ireland Assembly.
The issue of certificates of temporary exemption would temporarily remove some vehicles from the testing cycle. This would free up capacity to allow the Driver and Vehicle Testing Agency to focus on other vehicles such as buses, taxis and goods vehicles used on international journeys. It would also enable the agency to manage the backlog of work that will still remain when the industrial action ends. I beg to move.
Moved, That the Grand Committee do report to the House that it has considered the draft Vehicle Testing (Temporary Exemptions) (Northern Ireland) Order 2004.—(Baroness Amos.)
Lord Glentoran: I thank the noble Baroness for bringing this order before us at the end of a long series. It is good for us to spend a whole day on Northern Ireland matters, particularly in such detail, because we are refreshed on what is happening on the ground.
We talked earlier today about the problems of the strike, so I will not mention it again. Obviously, I support the order, understanding the reason for its being brought to your Lordships' House. I am concerned about the adequacy of the length of time the order will be in place. One does not want to be too pessimistic, but as we have had a lengthy stoppage and the strike continues, there will be a serious backlog. That will affect our hauliers in Europe, and some European countries will not necessarily at first accept the fact that some of the vehicles were not tested on time.
However, I am more concerned that the hauliers will be expected to maintain the level of inspection of their vehicles were the MoT system in place. I do not know, but I suspect that the hauliers' depots are not equipped to the same extent for vehicle inspection as are the MoT centres. Funnily enough, I have never had an MoT test in Northern Ireland or in England, I only had them in Spain. However, the set-up in an MoT centre for heavy goods vehicles and for motor cars requires a certain amount of specialist equipment to ensure that all the settings comply with EU rules and regulations.
I am concerned that Northern Ireland hauliers will not be equipped to carry out the necessary checks on their vehicles, which by now might be a month or so
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overdue, and that they will let them run on for a while. I suppose that we could be talking of checks on heavy goods vehicles being delayed for up to six months.
I am also concerned about the effect on the insurance policies of hauliers and private vehicle owners. While I was doing some homework on this subject, I read that many insurance policies depend on MoTs being up to date. I wonder what Her Majesty's Government have done in talking to the insurance industry. The longer it lasts the bigger the problem will become.
It is all very well to say that there will be an extension in time, but an insurance company may say that its policy states that the MoT has to be done on a given date and that if it is not done and a driver has an accident or something goes wrong the driver is not insured. That is an area on which I should like some encouragement.
Lastly, as regards hauliers, it seems that if there is a significant backlog—such as six months—and the haulage industry has to incur increased costs, we should look to the Government and the department to cover at least a part of those costs. With those riders, I support the order.
Baroness Harris of Richmond: I, too, thank the noble Baroness the Lord President of the Council for the very full, clear and gracious responses that she has made today to the points raised on the orders. As we have heard, this order is the result of industrial action by civil servants in Northern Ireland, which is impacting on the ability of the Driver and Vehicle Testing Agency to grant vehicle excise licences or MoTs.
The Government have known about this difficulty for a long time. Why have they taken so long to do anything about it? I understand that the exemption applies only within the UK. What happens if someone wants to take a car abroad from Northern Ireland? How can we be assured that cars coming over from Northern Ireland are safe on the roads of the rest of the UK? What happens if a car is involved in a road accident? That is a real concern, particularly for people who are going abroad.
It is difficult for us to oppose this order because law-abiding citizens will do their best to get their vehicles covered and in good order. But I have considerable concern supporting something that appears to condone the driving of unroadworthy vehicles. I am sure that most of the people of Northern Ireland are sensible enough not to want to drive cars that are in bad condition, but it is a dilemma. We can only hope that it will be resolved quickly for the safety of all the road users in Northern Ireland. We support the order.
Lord Maginnis of Drumglass: I suppose that it would be unwise of me to be controversial at this hour of the evening. Hence, I shall content myself by saying that of all the Orders in Council that I have seen brought before Parliament, this surely must be one of the most irresponsible that I have seen for a long time. In bringing forward this order, the Government have abdicated their responsibility.
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My figures may be wrong, but can the Minister tell me whether at present there is somewhere in the region of 87,000 vehicles overdue for MoT testing? Is it the case that normally at the stage when vehicles go for an MoT test—after the owners have taken the trouble to try to get them up to standard—on average 22 per cent are turned down at the first time of testing? If that is so and my mathematics are right, there are something like 19,140 vehicles currently on the road that are unroadworthy, plus those vehicles that are currently unroadworthy but which, if they were tested, would be brought up to standard. Surely, that is a huge problem for people in Northern Ireland. We must find out the truth behind what is happening in this sector. I notice that in another place the Minister, Angela Smith, said that she would like to dispel the myth that the order was just a response to industrial action. But if it is not just, or not mainly, a response to industrial action, why is there such a backlog?
Is it not the fact that something like £17 million has been spent in updating the testing centres in Northern Ireland? It would be interesting to see a breakdown of that figure and to know how much of that figure involved the updating of equipment and how much was involved in provision of software. Is it because of the arrangement, whereby that £17 million was spent and the Government have a contract with the people who provided the equipment and software, that they cannot do what should be done in any sensible situation—to contract out to our main agents, the garages in Northern Ireland, the responsibility for doing MoTs.
I know that at the moment, as Minister Smith indicated, the MoT fee in Northern Ireland is £28, whereas in GB it is £40.75. However, I and most of us know that major garages in Northern Ireland actually buy a package to send vehicles over to Scotland—a package that costs £90 for transport and testing in Scotland—after which they bring them back again to turn them over as second-hand vehicles. Why, then, are ordinary car drivers not allowed to avail themselves of the equipment that most major garages have, which they could use very quickly and efficiently to bring vehicles up to the standard?
We are creating this permission to drive unfit vehicles on the road, while the Government cannot afford to privatise the system. Perhaps the Minister could tell us whether the efficiency of those involved in MoT testing up until recently has been as efficient as it should be, given the new equipment that is available. I am told that the testing of vehicles is taking around three times as long as it should. But if, for whatever financial reason, we are unable to privatise the system, surely there should be an interim measure to secure roadworthy vehicles in Northern Ireland. We might even have had pilot programmes to see whether such a move would work; here was an opportunity to see whether private garages could provide the service more efficiently than is being done presently. But no—that opportunity has been lost.
Minister Smith said that car drivers will still be required to keep the car in a roadworthy condition at all times. What an opportunity that is for them! Do
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we really believe that all people will keep their cars in good condition, unless there is legislation being enforced? If that is the case, we do not need MoT testing in the first place.
The point raised by the noble Lord, Lord Glentoran, on insurance certificates was even more important. The Minister in another place said that most insurance certificates do not say that the driver must have an MoT certificate. Of course they do not, but they insist that drivers keep their car in a roadworthy condition. In other words, they must ensure that the tyres, brakes and steering are in good order. With this exemption we can be sure that there will be vehicles on the road that are not in good order in those respects.
If that is the case, what happens not when someone has a bang resulting in a £500 or even £5,000 claim, but when someone is seriously disabled for life and there is a claim for tens of thousands of pounds? Will the insurance companies say, "We have an arrangement with government; they will make up the deficit?". I am certain that the insurance companies will not pay. Have government an arrangement with the insurance companies to fulfil any shortfall for which the companies would under other circumstances be liable?
This Order in Council is a death sentence on people in Northern Ireland. I hope that I am not given to exaggeration, but currently there are 19,000 vehicles on the road that should be MoT tested but are not. In addition, there will be all the other vehicles coming on stream plus those that would have been brought up to standard. It strikes me that there is a carelessness regarding the welfare of car drivers and other road users in Northern Ireland.
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