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Lord Maginnis of Drumglass: I am grateful to the noble Baroness for giving way. Does she not find it somewhat strange that at a time when this new Labour Government have abandoned the idea of turning grammar schools in Great Britain into comprehensive schools and have declared that they have no further ambition in that direction, they now seek to undermine the element within education in Northern Ireland that has been a huge success over so many years?
Is it not inappropriate that the Government have no idea of the number of teacher or pupil hours that would be involved in moving children or teachers from one school to another? They just have not bothered to find out the impact of the Costello report. That is the difficulty we have. We believe that our educational system can stand on its own feet because it is a good system, but it is being destroyed without any pre-planning.
Baroness Amos: I do not agree with the noble Lord. He is not right when he talks about the Government abandoning plans in England and Wales where they have made absolutely clear that they want to achieve a balance between flexibility and choice, which is what they want to achieve in Northern Ireland as well.
Lord Maginnis of Drumglass: That means nothing.
Baroness Amos: No, I do not agree with that. It does not mean nothing. It means that the Government are seeking to ensure that we have a system that puts excellence at the heart but which, at the same time, meets the needs of all pupils. To do that, we recognise that we must have a range of provisions. In my earlier comments, I made absolutely clear that all schools, including grammar schools, can have a place under the new arrangements. Those schools offering a traditional academic emphasis will also need to offer a guaranteed minimum number of vocational courses.
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If the noble Lord has looked at the education system in England and Wales he will know that in seeking to encourage specialisation in city academies some 10 per cent of pupils are drawn through selection. That is part of the method to enhance excellence and to draw people in from a wider area while, at the same, encouraging excellence in a local school. That mix of choice, flexibility and excellence is precisely what we would also like to see in Northern Ireland.
As regards the Department for Education provision, the budget includes £3.2 million for the review of post-primary education in order to provide for ongoing groundwork to support implementation of revised arrangements. The questions raised by the noble Lord, Lord Maginnis, with respect to the knowledge that we have of what currently exists will be picked up through that review. But it will not be possible to estimate the total cost of those arrangements until decisions begin to emerge at a local level.
The issue of integrated education was raised by the noble Lords, Lord Hylton and Lord Kilclooney, and my noble friend Lord Dubs. The noble Baroness, Lady Blood, made her view of what is happening at a local level absolutely clear. Integrated education is accorded the highest priority, but long-term planning of schools infrastructure needs to consider factors, such as rapidly-falling birth rates. Such factors have significant influences on school building provision.
Regarding the specific question asked by the noble Lord, Lord Laird, about works for the schools estate, the order contains a specific provision of £26 million for minor works to improve the schools estate, including the removal of temporary classrooms and improved access for those with disabilities. That is in addition to the already substantial planned investment in the schools estate. On 27 April my honourable friend Barry Gardiner announced an investment programme covering 43 schools, including the funding of 12 schools through public/private partnership.
The noble Lord, Lord Maginnis, asked about children with autistic spectrum disorder and the noble Lord, Lord Laird, mentioned a specific case which, of course, I cannot address here. I understand that there will be an additional £0.5 million allocated to develop diagnostic assessment and early support services in 2004–05. The establishment of multi-disciplinary diagnostic and assessment teams will reduce waiting times for diagnosis and provide initial support for parents.
DHSSPS is working closely with the Department for Education to implement the recommendations in the task group report on the education of children and young people with autistic spectrum disorder and on the establishment of a centre of excellence in autism at Middletown.
The noble Lord, Lord Laird, asked about the student numbers cap. Currently, the Department for Employment and Learning is carrying out a public consultation exercise on the Higher Education Bill. The Minister with responsibility for employment and
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learning will wish to consider the issue of removing any cap on student numbers as part of that consultation exercise.
The noble Lord, Lord Glentoran, referred to planning. I fully appreciate the concerns raised by Members of the Committee on that issue. I would also point out that the planning service is now in its second year of a three-year programme to deliver fundamental reforms to the planning system. A number of key issues have already been addressed. Further significant progress will be achieved over the next six months.
Lord Glentoran: I thank the noble Baroness for giving way. I only made the point in relation to the strike. Had I been making some points about the planning service, I would have had to have declared an interest: I have had an application in for two-and-a-half years. That is why I stayed away from that point.
Baroness Amos: I thank the noble Lord for that clarification. The noble Lord, Lord Smith of Clifton, raised some concerns about the underspend in certain programmes and the Strategic Investment Board. Of £220 million of departmental underspend, some £157 million relates to slippage in capital programmes. I know that raises some bigger questions about why there has been that degree of slippage in capital programmes, but all of us will recognise that it is very unusual for a capital programme not to experience slippage.
The Strategic Investment Board was established in April last year to facilitate the development of key infrastructure programmes. The focusing of high calibre expertise and advice has enabled us to take forward a number of significant infrastructure investment programmes in key areas, including water treatment, education and roads.
I turn to the railways, an issue which I know is of concern to many noble Lords. It was raised by the noble Lords, Lord Shutt, Lord Laird and Lord Kilclooney, and my noble friend Lord Dubs. Closure of the railways on the non-core lines is only one option which is still out for consultation. Ministers need to take on board all the options and consider the economic, social and environmental impact in the wider budgetary context. Noble Lords will recognise that we need to address a number of pressing issues. The consultation exercise follows a statutory requirement and will conclude on 23 July. We will of course have to ensure that we achieve maximum value for money.
On the issue of investment in the roads, a matter raised by the noble Lord, Lord Kilclooney, the funding allocated to the road service as part of the regional transportation strategy will see significant improvements on the major roads mentioned by the noble Lord.
Concerns were also expressed by the noble Lords, Lord Laird and Lord Kilclooney, about the cost of the civic forum. The provision in the order is for the full-year costs of the body. The figure quoted for previous
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years reflects actual costs during suspension, hence the apparent increase. We all hope that suspension will cease, so the approach we have taken in the budget is consistent with our wish for an early restoration of devolution. In the event that the resources are not needed by the civic forum, they will be reallocated to other priority areas. So I can reassure noble Lords that the money will not simply be allocated and then not spent. The noble Lord, Lord Kilclooney, also spoke of the wider role of the civic forum. That will form part of the review and of the talks.
The noble Lord, Lord Laird, asked about funding for the North/South bodies. Indeed, the noble Lord has written to me on many occasions about this matter. All budgets for North/South bodies are agreed jointly by the government of both the North and the South. The 2004 budgets for each of the bodies have now been jointly agreed. Under current arrangements, North/South bodies are required to operate on a care and maintenance basis only and, in this context, budget proposals should not include any substantive development costs. I am well aware of the concerns of the noble Lord, Lord Laird, about the level of the budget allocated for the Ulster Scots Agency in 2004. He has tabled a number of Written Questions on the matter.
Lord Laird: When the noble Baroness says that the budgets have been "agreed", with whom have they been agreed? One of the planks of the current political process in Northern Ireland is consultation. I believe in consultation since I will talk to anyone about almost anything. But no discussion or agreement has taken place between the agency, the implementation bodies, the language body and both governments. That is the point I cannot understand.
As for care and maintenance, the language body seems to be the only one to suffer this business of care and maintenance. Waterways Ireland is to have a 40 per cent increase in its budget for the year 2004. It seems rather unfair that we should be the only body to suffer from care and maintenance. It is not a case of taking new territories. The Ulster Scots Agency was seeking to continue with a policy which it has now had to stop.
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