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Lord Tomlinson: My Lords, it is probably a triumph of hope over reasonable expectation that the noble Lord, Lord Tomlinson, should say directly that he was hoping that the noble Lord would have the good grace to apologise for some of the comments that he and his party leader made before the report.
Lord Strathclyde: My Lords, it would help if the noble Lord would be more specific about the allegations of accusing the Prime Minister of lying. He has read the Labour Party's brief well, but it left out the specific allegations. As part of the post-Hutton fallout, we now face another inquiry—the Butler inquiry—which we welcome.
I believe that the war in Iraq was justified. The Conservative Party has been consistent in offering its support to the Government and to our Armed Forces. We have been equally consistent in calling for an inquiry to be held into the intelligence surrounding the war. It is becoming increasingly clear that there was a discrepancy between the intelligence assessment of the weapons of mass destruction and the reality on the ground.
As already mentioned, David Kay has said that he does not believe that weapons of mass destruction exist or existed in Iraq. I hope that the House agrees that it is possible both to support the war and to want to get at the truth. I am very glad that after so many months the Prime Minister has accepted the case for this inquiry; although after hearing the noble and learned Lord the Lord Chancellor say on a television programme on Sunday that there was no need for a further inquiry, I was stunned to hear that view overturned within 24 hours. At last we have got an inquiry, and I am grateful for that.
There has been much discussion about the terms of reference of the inquiry, so let me be clear about our understanding of it. We believe that the committee can and should consider the way in which the Government used the intelligence with which they had been provided. We believe that that is now included fairly and squarely in the terms of reference. That is why we agreed to them. I hope that the noble and learned Lord the Lord Chancellor will not take refuge in the mantra that it is for the committee to construe its terms of reference. They are the Government's terms of reference. They must know what they intend them to mean.
I am very grateful to my noble friend Lord King of Bridgwater for raising that. I look to the noble and learned Lord the Lord Chancellor to confirm my view as clearly and unambiguously as I laid it out. The Government can already show their good intentions as regards this inquiry. As has already been referred to, writing in the Independent today, Dr Brian Jones (described at the Hutton inquiry as probably the most senior and experienced intelligence community official working on WMD) has made a specific request to the Prime Minister to publish the intelligence behind the Government's key claims that Iraq was actively producing chemical weapons and could launch an attack within 45 minutes of an order to do so.
Given that Saddam Hussein has been overthrown, he clearly does not believe that there is any reason or sensitivity for not publishing the intelligence. If there is such a reason, he thinks that it should be stated clearly. What is the response of the Government? As the noble and learned Lord the Lord Chancellor acknowledged today, there are specific criticisms of the MoD in the Hutton report, focusing on the way it treated Dr Kelly in relation to the naming process. Paragraph 432 of the report states:
- "The principle fault lay in the failure of the MoD to inform Dr Kelly that the press office was going to confirm his name if a journalist suggested it".
There are lessons, too, about the process of government; such as, the lack of documentary evidence of the conclusions of crucial meetings, which was commented on by the noble and learned Lord, Lord Hutton, in the course of the inquiry and, today, by the noble Lord, Lord Armstrong of Ilminster, with all the weight of experience that he has at his disposal.
I hope that the noble and learned Lord the Lord Chancellor will reply to the charge made by my noble friends Lord Waddington and Lord Alexander of Weedon. Should not the Government have gone to greater lengths to avoid the kind of false interpretation that was placed on the 45-minute claim? As my noble friend said, when newspapers published headlines such as "45 minutes from attack" on the day of the
September dossier, and "Brits 45 minutes from doom" the day after, should not the Government have made it clear that the claim in the dossier referred to battlefield weapons? That they did not is just one of the reasons why public confidence in the Government is so low. The public feel manipulated by the Government's omission.My noble friends Lord Alexander of Weedon and Lord King raised also the question of the advice given by the Attorney-General. That is a crucial point. I hope that the noble and learned Lord will confirm that the Attorney-General's advice on the reasons for going to war will be made available to the Butler inquiry.
There are lessons to be learnt about how the operation of Select Committees could be improved. My noble friend Lord King asked why the Intelligence and Security Committee could not obtain the e-mails that were readily surrendered to the inquiry of the noble and learned Lord, Lord Hutton. In the previous Parliament, my noble friend Lord Norton of Louth chaired a commission of distinguished parliamentarians and constitutional experts and proposed ways to strengthen democratic control of the executive. What a pity those recommendations were not taken up by the Government.
Finally, I turn briefly to the BBC. The most serious and far-reaching repercussions of the Hutton report in the past week have been for the BBC. I join those noble Lords who have paid tribute to Gavyn Davies and Greg Dyke. Notwithstanding the criticisms of them in the Hutton report, they both made a significant contribution to the BBC. That something went seriously wrong in the BBC is not in any doubt, but I share the view of many noble Lords that the BBC, at its best, has no equal in the world. Some institutional changes are now required, which must be properly debated and fully thought through, so that another generation can benefit from the excellent reporting that has been so true in the past.
There is also an essential point of principle here. No one should underestimate the vital role that a free media plays in sustaining a vigorous and healthy democracy. As the noble and learned Lord, Lord Hutton, himself states:
- "The communication by the media of information (including information obtained by investigative reporters) on matters of public interest and importance is a vital part of life in a democratic society".
There are clearly important lessons to be learnt from the report about how governments run their business. They are lessons for governments of all political parties. I hope that the noble and learned Lord will tell us what lessons the Government have learnt and what plans they hope to put into effect, and when. One view, shared by the noble Lord, Lord McNally, is that the Government should commit themselves in this Session to a civil service Bill in order to restore a proper separation between the political and official arms of government. The independence and impartiality of the Civil Service need now to be given statutory reinforcement. If that were done, the tragic death of Dr Kelly might not have been in vain.
9.43 p.m.
Lord Falconer of Thoroton: My Lords, we have had a very full and impressive debate in many respects. I join noble Lords in congratulating the noble Lord, Lord Ryder of Wensum, on his speech. Two things emerged from it: first, how brave he was to devote his maiden speech to a topic of such public interest; secondly, how mysterious it is that he has been silent during the past seven years when the quality of his speech was so high. I join with the noble Lord, Lord Strathclyde, in saying that the country can be confident that the BBC will be in safe hands during the months when he is the acting chairman of that great organisation.
I shall not be able to address my closing remarks to every point that has been made before 10 o'clock, so I shall divide them into three areas: first, the comments on the Hutton report itself; secondly, comments on the forthcoming inquiry—the noble Lords, Lord Strathclyde and Lord King, have brought us intelligence of what has been said in the Commons in the hope that we might say something different in this House; and thirdly, the position of the BBC.
I turn first to the Hutton report. Three strands emerged in the debate. The first was the strand exemplified by the noble Lord, Lord Marlesford, and the noble Lord, Lord Taverne, who said, "We appointed a judge. Let us genuinely accept the report". The second strand was represented by the noble Lord, Lord Waddington, and the noble Baroness, Lady Williams. They said that they accepted the report. They accepted, for example, the conclusion that the Government did not act dishonourably in relation to the naming strategy. The noble Lord, Lord Waddington, then delivered a speech describing the Government as "throwing Dr Kelly to the media". Those are not the words of honour. The noble Baroness, Lady Williams, made it explicit that she accepts the wording of the report. The report states that it was perfectly proper for discussions to take place between Downing Street officials and members of the JIC. She then made a series of remarks to the effect that she did not regard that as proper; indeed, she regarded it as "sexing up the document". So the second strand comprises those who say that they accept the report, but then operate in precisely the opposite way.
The third strand comprises, as one would expect, the noble Earl, Lord Onslow, and the noble Lord, Lord Phillips of Sudbury, who are absolutely straightforward: they said that they do not accept many of the findings. The noble Lord, Lord Taverne, put his finger precisely on the point. Because the noble and learned Lord, Lord Hutton, has published all his evidence, some people think that they can have a shot at forming their own view and putting themselves in a position that might be regarded as superior to that of the noble and learned Lord.
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