| Previous Section | Back to Table of Contents | Lords Hansard Home Page |
Lord Ezra: My Lords, is the Minister aware that our deficit in traded goods last year, excluding oil, exceeded £34 billion? That is the highest figure on record, and the trend is still rising. Is not that a serious situation? Do the Government have a strategy to deal with it?
Lord McIntosh of Haringey: My Lords, this country's balance of trade in manufactured goods--if that is what the noble Lord is referring to--has been adverse for nearly every year since about 1862. I would rather look at the growth in manufacturing industry and in our manufacturing exports. In the fourth quarter of last year our manufacturing exports increased by 10 per cent over the comparable period the previous year. Even exports to the European Union, with which we acknowledge that we have an exchange rate problem, grew by 5 per cent.
Baroness Gardner of Parkes: My Lords, the future of the Cammell Laird shipyard could have been made much safer with the new luxury cruisers that were to be built there. The American firm Luxus was willing to do that if the Government were prepared to underwrite the project. Why have the Government refused to underwrite more than 50 per cent? The cruise liner business is expanding fast. We are not experts at it and
the proposal would have been an opportunity for our manufacturing industry in a part of the country with high unemployment that needs such opportunities.
Lord McIntosh of Haringey: My Lords, I am unable to give an answer to the precise question about Cammell Laird put by the noble Baroness, Lady Gardner. Of course, she will be aware that, in turn, the Government must be conscious of the state aid restrictions of the European Union, which very largely are to our advantage.
Lord Stoddart of Swindon: My Lords, will my noble friend confirm that manufacturing industry as a percentage of GDP has fallen since 1973 from 32 to 19 per cent? In addition, does he agree that there is a point beyond which one cannot go if one wants to sustain a reasonably balanced economy in which manufacturing industry can perform? Therefore, will he consider an idea which has been put forward previously by the noble Lord, Lord Ezra, and, indeed, by myself that a Select Committee, similar to that set up in 1985, should be formed to consider the position of manufacturing industry and overseas trade?
Lord McIntosh of Haringey: My Lords, of course I acknowledge that in recent years the manufacturing share of GDP has gone down in this country, as it has in all developed countries. However, I can give some hope to my noble friend. We forecast that manufacturing industry will grow by 1.75 to 2 per cent this year and by 1.5 to 2 per cent in each of the two following years. Those forecasts have been in place for some time and have recently been confirmed.
As to the issue of a Select Committee of this House, that is, of course, a matter for the House authorities and the usual channels.
Identity Cards
2.51 p.m.
Baroness Sharples asked Her Majesty's Government:
- Whether they will consider introducing a national identity card.
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Home Office (Lord Bassam of Brighton): My Lords, we are not persuaded of the case for introducing a national identity card. We have looked seriously at the arguments but, for the moment, have concluded that the potential drawbacks outweigh the anticipated benefits.
Baroness Sharples: My Lords, I thank the noble Lord for that Answer. Last year he said that the matter was under review, but it sounds as though the review was rather inactive. Eleven other countries in Europe all have a form of identity card. Why cannot we follow
suit? Surely a smart card would help to combat fraud, which is absolutely prevalent in this country. That is one area in which a card would be most helpful.
Lord Bassam of Brighton: My Lords, the noble Baroness is right. We gave the matter active consideration last year but concluded that, all things considered, it is not the route that we wish to take. The noble Baroness draws attention to other European countries, but they do not all have national identity cards. I believe that Denmark, Eire, Sweden and Finland do not have such cards.
As to the noble Baroness's point in relation to smart cards, that issue is being given active consideration. I believe that a number of schemes are being undertaken or considered by government in connection with local government. However, many of those cards can themselves be used and abused for fraudulent means and that can lead to further fraud. Therefore, perhaps the matter is not so simple and straightforward as the noble Baroness likes to suggest.
Baroness Trumpington: My Lords, can the Lord enlarge upon the drawbacks to which he referred? Can he also tell me what difference there is now compared with the last war, when everyone had a national identity card? So far as I know, the use of cards during that period did not cause trouble to anyone.
Lord Bassam of Brighton: My Lords, the last war was rather before my time. As I recall, the noble Baroness made that point last year when the same question was put. I congratulate her on reminding us about it.
I readily acknowledge that benefits are to be gained from the introduction of national identity cards. However, many concerns also arise in relation to civil liberties, costs and security. In addition, it would be a major undertaking to establish a system for issuing cards promptly and with high security. All those points apply. I believe that when the noble Baroness's government were in power, they decided that the cost of such a scheme would be too great. They wanted a voluntary system. I believe that they costed a national identity card scheme at some £600 million at the point of introduction. For all those reasons, at present we are not convinced that such cards would be of great benefit to us.
Lord Goodhart: My Lords, I speak as someone who can remember carrying an identity card in the late 1940s. Does the Minister agree that one of the benefits of living in this country nowadays is that we do not have to carry identity cards with us?
Lord Bassam of Brighton: My Lords, that is the case. I am sure that in some states it is obligatory to carry a national identity card, and one may become criminalised as a result of not doing so. Without any
doubt, that is something to be taken into consideration. I am sure that it is a matter that would trouble the police service.
Lord Brooke of Alverthorpe: My Lords, can the Minister say whether the Government are still planning to introduce a form of identity card for 16 to 18 year-old students? If so, when will it be introduced?
Lord Bassam of Brighton: My Lords, we are giving active consideration to that matter. I believe that my noble friend refers to connection cards, which we consider to have benefits. As I understand it, potentially that scheme would cover as much as 75 per cent of the age group in question. We are also considering whether such a card should include a date of birth so that it could be used for establishing proof of age. I know that many other benefits arise in terms of passporting, education courses and so on. Therefore, I consider it to be a very useful development.
Lord Rogan: My Lords, does the Minister consider that the introduction of a national identity card would, among many other benefits, help to eliminate electoral fraud in the same manner as the introduction of the voter ID card in Northern Ireland is currently planned to do?
Lord Bassam of Brighton: My Lords, I am not an expert on elections in Northern Ireland. From time to time, I hear stories about elections there and, thus, I can well understand the noble Lord's point.
Earl Ferrers: My Lords, does the Minister agree that nowadays everyone knows everything about everyone else because of the existence of a variety of different cards? As the Government are so concerned, quite rightly, about illegal immigrants, what is their objection to having identity cards? The only people who would fear them would be illegal immigrants. What is wrong with that?
Lord Bassam of Brighton: My Lords, I do not believe that the introduction of national identity cards would necessarily benefit our enforcement of immigration controls. However, I have heard that argument made. It is certainly not part of the arrangements and agreements that have come into play as a result of Schengen. Of course, these matters must be considered in the round. We have taken the view that a national identity card would produce some benefits but that those are greatly outweighed by the disbenefits.
Baroness Sharples: My Lords, does the noble Lord accept that the police would be perfectly happy with a system of voluntary identity cards? I was not talking about a compulsory system.
Lord Bassam of Brighton: My Lords, I am aware that that was an option which the previous government considered. However, in the end it did not
come to pass. We are happy with the current arrangements. For all the reasons that I outlined at the outset of this Question, we believe that the benefits of a national identity card are not so great that such a scheme is worthy of further consideration at this stage.
| Next Section | Back to Table of Contents | Lords Hansard Home Page |