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Lord Falconer of Thoroton: My Lords, I was profoundly distressed by the approbation shown in all parts of the House at the suggestion that it had too many lawyers. I agree that there should be a place in this House for retired Supreme Court justices and retired Lord Chief Justices, but I am not sure of the precise number.
Lord Wakeham: My Lords, does the noble and learned Lord the Lord Chancellor agree that there is a difficulty in picking some retired judges and putting them into this House but not others? It might be thought by some a favour for being a compliant judge. Might the best plan be for all Supreme Court judges to become Members of the House on appointment but not take their seat until they retire from the Supreme Court?
Lord Falconer of Thoroton: My Lords, I agree that it would be invidious to select some but not others, but not with the noble Lord's conclusion that one should become a Member of the House on appointment. I think that one has to wait until one has ceased to be a full-time judge. That is the view expressed in the Constitutional Reform Act, approved by Parliament.
Lord Davies of Coity: My Lords, my noble and learned friend said that a judge—someone appointed to the judiciary—did not have eligibility to remain in Parliament. How does that stack up against having bishops, who have a theological responsibility, sitting in this House?
Lord Falconer of Thoroton: My Lords, the House of Commons has always excluded judges from being Members; the House of Lords did it in the Constitutional Reform Act. It would be unwise of me
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to step into theological areas at this point. I hope that the noble Lord will excuse me for saying nothing about the bishops; I am happy to see two right reverend Prelates in their place today.
Lord Peyton of Yeovil: My Lords, I very much hope that the noble and learned Lord will not allow himself to drift into the notion that the legislation, in which he had a role, was universally welcomed or applauded. Is he aware that some of us see that development as part of an attempt by the Government to diminish the stature of your Lordships' House?
Lord Falconer of Thoroton: My Lords, I recognise that there is continuing opposition to the legislation, but the important thing about it is that it was passed. We now have to give effect to it.
The Lord Bishop of Peterborough: My Lords, as the noble and learned Lord the Lord Chancellor ventured into the realm of theology, might he reflect on the fact that the psalm that we read earlier this afternoon stressed the continuing importance of justice in the enacting of law?
Lord Falconer of Thoroton: My Lords, one of the great benefits of attending Prayers every day is that it allows me to reflect on the psalms. Indeed, it was the very thought that I was reflecting on after Prayers this afternoon.
Lord Tomlinson: My Lords, now that my noble and learned friend seems to have introduced exceptional categories such as judges, ex-judges, bishops and possibly retired bishops, how does he propose in future that that should square with his general views on democratic impulses for this House?
Lord Falconer of Thoroton: My Lords, the views that I have expressed on the reform of the House do not exclude there still being an appointed element to ensure that one gets the benefit of expertise and wisdom from people who would not wish to stand for election. As I say, I have tried to avoid straying into anything other than the position of judges and ex-judges, so if the noble Lord does not mind I will not comment further.
Lord Henley: My Lords, exactly how much will it cost to transfer the Law Lords from here, and what will be the extra costs of having them operate from a different place? I ask in a genuine spirit of inquiry.
Lord Falconer of Thoroton: My Lords, I do not have available the capital costs for Middlesex Guildhall, where subject to planning permission it is proposed that the Law Lords be housed, or the additional resource costs, but I shall write to the noble Lord.
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NHS: Junior Doctors
2.59 pm
Baroness Neuberger asked Her Majesty's Government:
Whether they have made plans to assist the 11,500 junior doctors who may miss out on training posts in England in 2007.
The Minister of State, Department of Health (Lord Warner): My Lords, some 21,000 doctors are currently in senior house officer or equivalent posts. As part of the Modernising Medical Careers changes, they will be converted into a three-part mixture of run-through specialist training posts, fixed-term training posts offering early years training in a specialty, and staff posts. It is quite untrue that 11,500 junior doctors will miss out on training or be unemployed; but, as now, a proportion of those doctors will be in a staff rather than a training post.
Baroness Neuberger: My Lords, I thank the Minister for his reply, and I shall not reflect on the Psalms—the noble and learned Lord the Lord Chancellor was well advised not to reflect on them. Can the Minister confirm that it is intended that sufficient specialist training posts will be created annually to match the output of the UK's medical schools? Furthermore, given that Parliament votes funds to pay for education and training in the health service separately from service requirements, how will he ensure that those funds remain ring-fenced and will not fall prey to short-term service requirements or be raided to meet financial shortfalls?
Lord Warner: My Lords, as of now, the postgraduate deans and the NHS trusts are working together to consider how to use the funding for those posts and to create the right number of specialty training posts. We will have to wait and see how that will work out, and that will probably take the rest of this year, but there is no point in our not ensuring that the number of training posts is commensurate with the number of graduates from UK medical schools, which have a 70 per cent higher intake than in 1997.
Lord Walton of Detchant: My Lords, is the Minister aware that I was among the many members of the medical profession who argued for many years with governments of all political complexions that the establishment of GPs and of consultants in all specialities in this country was far lower per head of population than in many other European countries? We are grateful that this is the first Government to put substantial additional funding into the National Health Service. However, in the light of the increased number of GPs and consultants in all specialties made possible by the additional funding, does the Minister fully appreciate that the evidence suggests that there will not be sufficient specialist registrar appointments
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to compete for the GP and consultant vacancies, at a time when many GPs and consultants, frustrated by the recent NHS reforms, are taking early retirement?
Lord Warner: My Lords, I have the greatest respect for the noble Lord's expertise, and I liked the first part of his remarks more than the second. There is no compelling evidence to suggest that we will not continue to make an orderly transition to the Modernising Medical Careers system and to match the specialist training requirements for doctors and GPs in accordance with the outflow from the medical schools in this country.
Earl Howe: My Lords, it costs about £200,000 to train a doctor. In the light of that, what action will the Government take to ensure that doctors trained in the UK who do not succeed in securing a training post here do not leave the NHS and go overseas, something that many have indicated that they will do?
Lord Warner: My Lords, I must try to nail this point: there is no evidence that doctors who are qualified to take up those specialty training posts will not be able to do so. A very large number of those in the 21,000 senior house officer posts that I mentioned in my Answer are not in postgraduate training posts now; they are in staff and trust posts and are often not qualified to take specialty training.
Baroness Tonge: My Lords, is the Minister aware that, according to the Council of Deans and Heads of UK University Faculties for Nursing and Health Professions, there will be 12,000 nursing graduates between now and September and, so far, there are only just over 1,100 vacancies for those people to fill? What does he propose to do about that terrible wastage of nursing? In view of the fact that the Government are closing so many hospital beds, has he considered that those staff could be utilised as district and community nurses?
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