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House of Lords
Monday, 19 June 2006.
The House met at half-past two of the clock: the LORD CHANCELLOR on the Woolsack.
Prayers—Read by the Lord Bishop of Peterborough.
Burma: UN Security Council
Lord Alton of Liverpool asked Her Majesty's Government:
What steps they are taking to ensure that the United Nations Security Council discusses the report of the Under-Secretary-General of the United Nations, Ibrahim Gambari, following his meeting with Aung San Suu Kyi; and the upsurge in violence in the Karen state.
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Lord Triesman): My Lords, on 31 May, Under-Secretary-General Gambari briefed United Nations Security Council members on his visit to Burma and his meeting with Aung San Suu Kyi. We understand that he requested that the regime should release her and put an end to the violence in Karen state. We support the United States' proposals for a proper discussion of Burma at the Security Council, which we hope will lead to a resolution. Today is her 61st birthday. The Prime Minister has made a statement, and I am certain that all sides of the House would want to wish her well.
Lord Alton of Liverpool: My Lords, I thank the Minister for that reply. Will he reflect on the fact that on this, Aung San Suu Kyi's 61st birthday, it is 16 years since the National League for Democracy won 82 per cent of the seats in the Parliament in Myanmar and that for many of those years she has been kept under virtual house arrest? Recently, in Karen state, to which the Minister referred, the upsurge in violence has even led to the point-blank-range killing of a little girl aged nine following the shooting dead of her grandmother and her father. As the years have passed, some 28 Commission on Human Rights resolutions have been passed at the United Nations. Surely, the time is now right, as the Minister said, for a binding Security Council resolution. What prospects does the Minister believe there are for its success?
Lord Triesman: My Lords, I also deplore the continued detention of Aung San Suu Kyi and the attacks carried out by the Burmese army on civilians in northern and western Karen state. Representations on all those matters were made by my right honourable friend Ian McCartney on 15 June. At the moment, my estimation is that there is not support for a binding resolution, but there is, we believe, growing support—
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much work still needs to be done on it—for a non-binding resolution, if we can overcome the objections, in particular, of China and Russia.
Lord Eden of Winton: My Lords, representations have been made by Her Majesty's Government and by the United Nations over many years. What impact have they had? What has been achieved so far, particularly in relation to the genocidal activities against the Karen people? Is any action being taken to mobilise regional support and representation from states surrounding Burma?
Lord Triesman: My Lords, there has been a consistent pattern of trying to intervene. The House will appreciate that the regime does not court any kind of external interest. It does not even seem interested, broadly speaking, in its neighbours in any respect. It has withdrawn, year by year successively, from international links of all kinds, but we continue not only to put pressure on it, but to put the case to China and other ASEAN states because, in the long term, that is probably the only option that is fully open to us.
Lord Foulkes of Cumnock: My Lords, does my noble friend agree that the noble Lord, Lord Alton, should be congratulated on raising an issue that has been put to one side because of a preoccupation with other international issues? I feel disappointed in the Minister's response, though only to an extent—because our Government have done well in getting the matter raised at the Security Council. However, the thought that we may not get a binding resolution is really disappointing and gives the feeling that somewhere around the world, if not in this country, punches are being pulled. Is it not about time that we redoubled our effort to get a binding resolution to get rid of this dictatorial, brutal regime at last and to get democracy returned to Burma?
Lord Triesman: My Lords, I share my noble friend's discouragement about the difficulties that we face in getting a binding resolution. We have fully supported the discussions of Burma in the Security Council, and we hoped that the Security Council would press on to highlight the international concerns over human rights abuses in the country, including the latest attacks on Karen civilians. But we are where we are; we are not at the moment in a position, apparently, to change the mind of China and Russia on the question, and getting a non-binding resolution will itself raise the issue further but not go the whole of the way that we would ideally like to go.
Lord Chidgey: My Lords, it seems that, with the passage of time, the Burmese junta is less and less likely to be influenced by western concerns. I welcome the Minister's comment that Russia and China are key players in regional stability there, but could he assure us that every effort is being made to bring Russia and China to our way of thinking? The release of Aung San Suu Kyi is an essential precondition of any further steps forward, but it could also be a first step towards
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serious dialogue, provided that the international community looked at its objectives again to see where we can find opportunities to balance what is desirable with what is achievable.
Lord Triesman: My Lords, I readily give the assurance that the noble Lord asked for. We shall continue to put the pressure on; it would be ideal if we could get to a position of unanimity in the Security Council. The methods that the international community is deploying are probably the ones that are genuinely available. If it appears that other tactics may be more effective, we are very open to that. Persuading Burma's immediate neighbours in the ASEAN region is probably the most effective way, because even with a regime as cut off as this one, some elements of its international trade remain essential to it.
Baroness Cox: My Lords, is the Minister aware that, in the recent attacks on the Karen people, to which reference has been made, more than 18,000 more Karen have been forced to leave their homes and villages and live as displaced people in the jungle in appalling conditions, with no shelter, food and or medical aid? Would Her Majesty's Government therefore encourage DfID to support responsible aid organisations to take medical and other aid to those people, who otherwise are dying in ways that could be avoided?
Lord Triesman: My Lords, two significant aid programmes are already in place: one is spending £1.8 million over three years, and another is spending £500,000 every year with the key aid organisations. If we are to extend that, DfID, very properly, will want to know that the money is going to bodies that can give a proper account of how they then spend the money; otherwise there would be legitimate criticism. The programmes that we have are important and, if they can be geared up further, I shall unquestionably ensure that DfID is aware of the views of the House.
The Minister of State, Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Lord Rooker): My Lords, I am sorry; we are into the ninth minute, so we must move on.
Child Protection: Witchcraft
2.44pm
Lord Roberts of Llandudno asked Her Majesty's Government:
When they will respond to the request by African Churches in the United Kingdom to publish Department for Education and Skills research into allegations of witchcraft and possession in the United Kingdom.
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Education and Skills (Lord Adonis): My Lords, the findings and recommendations of the
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research commissioned by the Department for Education and Skills to scope the problem of child abuse in England linked to belief in possession or witchcraft are being considered by Ministers across government and will be published as soon as possible.
Lord Roberts of Llandudno: My Lords, I thank the Minister for his reply. I hope that the report will be published very soon; many of us look forward to it. How widespread has the consultation been in drafting the report? What long-term proposals do the Government have to continue the dialogue with African Churches in the UK to prevent those who are doing their ordinary job—doing it very well—being tarred with the same brush as some of the extreme sects that cause us so much concern?
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