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Lord Shutt of Greetland: My Lords, I am delighted to support the noble Lord, Lord Goodhart, in calling attention to the Power inquiry report. As a Yorkshireman, I congratulate both the Lincolnshire Fen man, the noble Lord, Lord Taylor of Holbeach, and the Lancastrian sheriff, the noble Lord, Lord Lee
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of Trafford, on their maiden speeches. We hope to hear more from them on future occasions.
As the noble Lord, Lord Smith of Clifton, indicated, I, too, have to declare interests in that I have been a trustee for some years of the Joseph Rowntree Charitable Trust and the JRSST Charitable Trust, which have jointly funded the inquiry. I have also chaired the Citizens' Inquiry trust, which has been overseeing the inquiry. Apart from our real endeavour to make sure that we had a credible group of commissioners, our job has been to make certain that the report is, in the phrase that one hears these days, "on time, on budget", but the work of the commission and the report is theirs. I congratulate the noble Baroness, Lady Kennedy of The Shaws, and Ferdinand Mount, who were chairman and vice-chairman of the inquiry. I also congratulate the staff members—Pam Giddy, Adam Lent and Caroline Watson—who have been with the inquiry throughout, and the talented group of young people who have assisted them. It is their report, and it has been enhanced by the deliberations and involvement of many people.
"On time, on budget"—it really has been on time and timely. The published book is split into two parts. The first half sets out the democratic dilemma and the second half has 30 ideas for improvement. Many can wax lyrically about the faults of our current democratic system, but it is good to have 30 specific proposals. Some, of course, are more exciting than others; I cannot say that I am hostile to any of them, and they sit well as a package. But these are ideas, not Bills and certainly not Acts or parts thereof.
I want to highlight five of the ideas, but, before I do so, I will briefly mention some others. First, reference has been made to votes at 16. I have come to the view that this is not a bad thing. There are some people at 16 who you would be delighted to see have a vote and others who you might not. But I take the same view of folk at 66; there are some I like to see with a vote and some I would rather not. I believe that getting involved in democracy and in democratic principles early is a good thing. This is an important part of the report. Secondly, I was interested to see the whole business of the Whips and of the power particularly of the Government Chief Whip in the House of Commons. I contrast that with the benign operation that I operate as the Liberal Democrat Chief Whip here. But we learn things all the time. Thirdly, the whole business of the growth of the quango state is referred to throughout. The fourth item is that new ways of citizen involvement are important and worth pursuing.
Let me move on to the five items that particularly attract me. Before coming to this place, and even for a few years while in it, I spent 25 years of my life in local government. Therefore, I think that it is important that we look at local government. The report says three things: there should be an unambiguous process of decentralisation of powers from central to local government; there should be a concordat between central and local government setting out respective
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powers; and local government should be given enhanced powers to raise taxes and administer its own finances.
In a debate about four years ago, I picked up the minute book of Halifax Borough Council for the year 1937 and looked at all the areas over which local government had influence at that time—health, public utilities such as gas, electric and water, public transport, further education, the totality of planning powers, and many more. The debilitation of local government has been constant. There were areas where it was obvious that local government should be involved. The Government will say to give themselves credit, "One of the things we really want to brag about is Sure Start". But that is a very simple matter of putting time, effort and money into giving under-fives a good start in life. Why on earth do we need multitudes of quangos to operate it? Why could it not have been entrusted to local government?
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Constitutional Affairs (Baroness Ashton of Upholland): My Lords, as a Sure Start Minister, I can say that Sure Start is entirely run through local government.
Lord Shutt of Greetland: My Lords, it certainly was not entirely run though local government when I was a local councillor. Indeed, we were told to keep out. I tell it straight: we were told to keep out and that it was nothing to do with us.
Baroness Ashton of Upholland: My Lords, when I was Sure Start Minister, we transferred powers and made sure that local government played exactly the role that the noble Lord would wish it to play.
Lord Shutt of Greetland: Well, my Lords, we beg to differ. But that is how I experienced it as a local councillor. I went to a public meeting that was called to start up Sure Start and we were told, "It's nothing to do with you; you're local councillors, so keep out." I use that as an instance of something that is extremely local and should have stayed local, rather than becoming part of the quango society.
In a related independent report—to which my noble friend Lord Smith of Clifton referred—Whose Town is it Anyway? The State of Local Democracy in Two Northern Towns, reference is made to Burnley and Harrogate. The most amazing fact about those towns is that their councils are responsible for only 5 per cent of local public expenditure, yet those are the doors that the citizens of those towns knock at when looking for help and assistance. That may well be worth a debate on its own, and perhaps we should look at it later.
When will centralisation stop? The Power report mentions enhanced powers for raising money. I have sat here year after year and heard the Government's announcement each autumn, which is given at the same time as council-tax-fixing announcements in multitudes of local authorities throughout the country.
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"A responsive electoral system should be introduced for elections to the House of Commons, House of Lords and local councils in England and Wales".
Credit has already been given to the Government for what has happened with elections to the European Parliament, the elections in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland, and Northern Ireland local elections. It is worth saying—because the noble Lord, Lord Trimble, interjected in the speech of my noble friend Lord Goodhart to suggest that PR in Northern Ireland was not all that it might be cracked up to be—that no system is absolutely perfect. However, were the noble Lord, Lord Trimble, to seek election to Stormont, in most constituencies he and his party would have a chance of election, which they certainly did not have in the first-past-the-post election that rejected him from the other place.
Some people think that proportional representation would be good for Liberal Democrats. It might be, but, like everyone, we will have to learn how to contest PR elections. I am not certain that we as a party know that at the present time. But that is not the point; the reason for proportional representation is that it is right in itself. It gives value for the vote and it will assist women and ethnic minorities—indeed, all minorities, particularly those that find themselves in one-party states at the moment.
My final point is on recommendation 20:
That is the "£3 tick-box" suggestion, which should go hand in hand with capped donations. But it is really important to have funding at a local level. Nothing would be worse than bloated central political parties hand in hand with an even more bloated central Government.
The Power report takes the lid off many mysteries to people concerned about politics, but there are still mysteries. It is important to open up the political process and make it transparent. I have had a rather inelegant phrase for some years: "Politics is knackered". My noble friend referred to the fact that in Burnley and Harrogate the total numbers of people involved in the political process were 89 and 118. Some may think that an exaggeration, but if 200 is the total tally of people really taking politics seriously in those substantial towns, that is a very limited number. All of us who are concerned about politics should be concerned about that. The proposals in the Power report can put politics on the mend. The amazing thing is that the proposals do not, in themselves, cost money.
2.10 pm
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