| Previous Section | Back to Table of Contents | Lords Hansard Home Page |
Migrant Workers
11.28 am
Baroness Shephard of Northwold asked Her Majesty's Government:
The Minister of State, Home Office (Baroness Scotland of Asthal): My Lords, the Department for Work and Pensions Labour Force Survey estimates that there are 2.8 million persons working in England who were born abroad. That figure includes EU citizens, settled migrants and migrants who have subsequently obtained British citizenship.
Baroness Shephard of Northwold: My Lords, I thank the Minister for that reply and for its clarity. She will be aware that there have been a number of professions of ignorance from senior officials and from her fellow Ministers about the exact number of migrant workers, both legal and illegal, in this country. Does she accept that the extremely large, and often unacknowledged, number of migrant workers who are here legally and illegally put a great deal of pressure on local services, and that because they are often unacknowledged things are extremely stretched at the coal face of local provision? Would she like to explain to the House how the Government plan to cope with the extra service needs created by those workers at local level if their knowledge of the number concerned is a bit vague?
Baroness Scotland of Asthal: My Lords, first, perhaps I may say to the noble Baroness that the knowledge of the number of migrant workers who work here legally is not vague. Secondly, migrant workers make an extremely large and valuable contribution to our country that far outweighs any use of our resources. We have no indication that they make a disproportionate drain on any services in this country.
Lord Harrison: My Lords, is my noble friend aware of recent reports from the ITEM Club and the Joseph Rowntree Foundation that clearly demonstrate the economic benefit to this country of migrant workers and the fact that many of them fill skills shortages in the current economy?
Baroness Scotland of Asthal: My Lords, I am aware of that report, I absolutely understand its contents, and the Government agree.
15 Jun 2006 : Column 325
Lord Dholakia: My Lords, I thank the Minister for the clarity of her reply. Has the Home Office considered producing an impact statement that can demonstrate the valuable contribution that minorities make, which is estimated at over £2.3 billion or £2.6 billion a year? How could we sustain our building, trade, health, transport and other industries if migrant workers were not providing those services?
Baroness Scotland of Asthal: My Lords, I understand why the noble Lord asks for such an impact statement and we will consider that; but a great deal of data in the public domain demonstrates the efficacy of the policy of inclusion and welcoming those who wish to come and contribute to the well-being and establishment of our country. Indeed, if we look around this House, we will see a number who have made a substantial contribution.
Lord Davies of Oldham: My Lords, we have not heard from the Cross Benches this morning.
Lord Hylton: My Lords, will the Minister give an assurance that nothing will be done to prejudice the employment situation of existing and new domestic workers coming from overseas? Does she recall that a predecessor in this Administration, in 1997 or 1998, made arrangements that succeeded in ending the terrible abuses that had occurred in that sector in the 1980s and 1990s?
Baroness Scotland of Asthal: My Lords, we absolutely understand the concern for those who are already resident in this country. From all our data, there does not seem to have been any displacement. One of our advantages is that we have a relatively robust economy and good employment for all those who come here.
Lord Roberts of Llandudno: My Lords—
Lord Davies of Oldham: My Lords, it is the Conservative Party's turn.
Baroness Byford: My Lords, further to the Minister's response to my noble friend, all of us obviously value and appreciate the immense contribution that legal migrants make, but what is the number of illegal migrants and how much has been wrongly paid in tax credits to those migrants who have no right to receive them?
Baroness Scotland of Asthal: My Lords, it is impossible accurately to determine how many people
15 Jun 2006 : Column 326
are in the United Kingdom illegally. The Home Office published a report on 30 June last year that included an estimate of the size of the illegal migrant population in the United Kingdom in 2001. The central estimate of that report was 430,000, although that was based on data from the 2001 census. It is reasonable to assume that the overall number will have reduced since EU enlargement, because any illegally resident migrants from those countries will now be able to reside legally. I remind the House that the removal of embarkation controls by the previous government in 1994 has had an impact on our ability to assess how many people come in and go out.
Lord Roberts of Llandudno: My Lords—
Lord Davies of Oldham: My Lords, it is the turn of the Labour Benches.
Lord Brooke of Alverthorpe: My Lords, does the Minister agree that perhaps we might get a better handle on those figures if we had compulsory identity cards? Perhaps she might also agree with me that we should do our best to try to persuade those who constantly criticise and complain about the number of illegal migrants that we do not know about in this country to support compulsory identity cards.
Baroness Scotland of Asthal: My Lords, I certainly agree that identity cards would certainly help us greatly. Of course it is for noble Lords opposite to decide whether they wish to continue with their stance, which many do not understand.
Nepal
11.35 am
The Earl of Sandwich asked Her Majesty's Government:
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Lord Triesman): My Lords, we recognise from our own experience how a constitutional monarchy can serve as a symbol of national pride and a force for unity and stability. However, it is for the people of Nepal to decide the future of their monarchy. We therefore welcome the Government of Nepal's intention to hold elections to a constituent assembly, whose representatives will have the task of drafting the new constitution.
The Earl of Sandwich: My Lords, I thank the Minister for that helpful reply. The people of Nepal have taken a very bold step towards multi-party democracy and a return to stable government. At present they are also preserving a ceremonial monarchy. Bearing in mind the Government's long friendship with Nepal and, as the Minister said, our own political experience, should we not encourage the
15 Jun 2006 : Column 327
Government of Nepal to move swiftly on to a UN-monitored ceasefire and to free elections, and to resist the Maoist call for the abolition of the monarchy?
Lord Triesman: My Lords, we certainly do all that we can to encourage the earliest possible elections to a constituent assembly and the negotiations which are needed between the warring parties in Nepal. Some useful steps have been taken forward in what is quite a fragile position. The peace talks that started with the Maoists on 26 May were a good start. The reality is that the Maoist forces have to be brought into a political process, and that involves them renouncing violence. There is no place for people to engage in political processes while retaining arms and using them.
Lord Astor of Hever: My Lords, in the light of the strong economic and historical ties between India and Nepal, what discussions have the Government had with the Government of India about restoring democracy in Nepal?
Lord Triesman: My Lords, that is an absolutely accurate observation. India has the greatest influence in Nepal, although of course other international interlocutors are involved as well. We have been in discussion with the Government of India. I believe that they share precisely the objective of seeing early elections, a solid constitutional platform and then a definition of the long-term role of the monarchy.
| Next Section | Back to Table of Contents | Lords Hansard Home Page |