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Lord Evans of Temple Guiting: I beg to move that the House do now resume.
Moved accordingly, and, on Question, Motion agreed to.
House adjourned at three minutes past ten o'clock.
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Wednesday, 3 May 2006.
Grand Committee
The Committee met at fifteen minutes to four of the clock.
[The Deputy Chairman of Committees (BARONESS LOCKWOOD) in the Chair.]
Safeguarding Vulnerable Groups Bill [HL]
(Second Day)
Links to other Grand Committee Sittings on the Bill
The Deputy Chairman of Committees (Baroness Lockwood): I shall begin by saying that if there is a Division in the Chamber while we are sitting, this Committee will adjourn as soon as the Division Bells are rung and resume after 10 minutes.
Schedule 3 [Regulated Activity]:
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Education and Skills (Lord Adonis) moved Amendment No. 61:
" (5A) The exercise of a function of—
(a) the Commission for Healthcare Audit and Inspection, or
(b) the National Assembly for Wales,
so far as it relates to the inspection of an establishment, agency or body falling within sub-paragraph (5B) is a regulated activity relating to children.
(5B) An establishment, agency or body falls within this sub-paragraph if it is—
(a) an establishment in relation to which a requirement to register arises under section 11 of the Care Standards Act 2000,
(b) an agency in relation to which such a requirement arises, or
(c) an NHS body within the meaning of section 148 of the Health and Social Care (Community Health and Standards) Act 2003,
and it provides any form of treatment or therapy for children."
The noble Lord said: In moving Amendment No. 61, I shall speak also to Amendments Nos. 62, 65, 66, 67, 160, 172 and 173. These are minor amendments to refine the coverage of the Bill. I mentioned them in my letter of 25 April to the noble Baroness, Lady Buscombe.
Amendment No. 61 is intended to improve the consistency between regulated activity relating to children and regulated activity relating to vulnerable adults. As the Bill is currently drafted, an individual on the vulnerable adults' barred list would not be able to be an inspector of healthcare settings, while a person on the children's barred list would be able to be an inspector. This anomaly is corrected by the amendment.
I turn to Amendment No. 65. Where a person is self-employed and they are principally training, supervising children or otherwise engaged in an activity providing close contact with a child under the age of 16 in the course of that child's employment, they will be covered by the provisions of the scheme. Amendment
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No. 66 makes it clear that the bar applies and the requirement to check applies to all individuals who have frequent opportunities for contact or who engage in close contact with children in key children's settings, including all providers of nursery education, whether or not they are required to register under the Childcare Bill.
Amendment No. 172 is intended to ensure that the definition of educational institutions includes those providers of initial teacher training courses that may not otherwise be educational institutions in the ordinary sense of the term. Amendment No. 173 rectifies a drafting error in Clause 44. The current definition of "personnel supplier" makes reference to "B" when there is in fact no previous definition of "B". The purpose of the amendment is to ensure that those educational institutions that supply individuals with the purpose of enabling them to experience regulated activity, such as supplying trainee teachers to schools, should be covered by the definition of "personnel suppliers" in the Bill.
Perhaps I may point out to the Committee that at this point I do not intend to move Amendments Nos. 160 and 161, which make reference to Wales. I beg to move.
On Question, amendment agreed to.
Lord Adonis moved Amendment No. 62:
On Question, amendment agreed to.
[Amendments Nos. 63, 64 and 64A not moved.]
Lord Adonis moved Amendments Nos. 65 to 67:
"( ) an establishment which is exclusively or mainly for the provision of nursery education (within the meaning of section 117 of the School Standards and Framework Act 1998);"
Page 42, line 42, leave out paragraph (d).
On Question, amendments agreed to.
[Amendments Nos. 68 to 72 not moved.]
Baroness Walmsley moved Amendment No. 73:
"(f) any service provided wholly or mainly for vulnerable adults and paid for directly under section 57 of the Health and Social Care Act 2001 (c. 15) (direct payments)"
The noble Baroness said: This amendment, along with Amendment No. 75 tabled in the names of the noble Lords, Lord Laming and Lord Harris, deals with the issue of direct payments where potential employees are eligible for disclosure but not the bar. This amendment adds the provision of direct payments into the list of regulated activity relating to vulnerable adults. Under the Bill, recipients of direct payments are not classified as regulated activity providers and therefore do not have to check people providing services to them. There may be unsuitable people who might move into providing direct payment
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services because the likelihood is that they may not be checked, and in doing so, creating an ideal unsupervised opportunity to abuse vulnerable people.
People receiving direct payments must be fully aware of the vetting and barring process, with support if necessary, and offered appropriate protection against unsuitable people providing services to them in their own home under the new scheme. Alternatively, there could be an opt-out check, where direct payment recipients would have to make an active decision not to check providers of services.
As the Committee knows, people with learning disabilities who have limited capacity to manage their own affairs can receive direct payments with assistance from a family member or an agent. However, a separate bank account must be used, and if the person concerned does not have the capacity to understand what the account is for, it must be a trustee account. However, in that situation, the agent or trustee is making decisions about risk on behalf of the vulnerable adult. In view of that, we suggest that the bar should extend to employees of people who use a trustee account for their direct payments. Agents have a duty to ensure that services are purchased that promote the service user's well-being and independence. The well-being of vulnerable people is not at all promoted by their receiving care from unregulated social care workers.
The simplest way to achieve that is to add recipients of direct payments to the list of regulated activities. I believe that that would also cover agents or trustees. I beg to move.
Lord Laming: I rise to speak to Amendment No. 75. As the noble Baroness, Lady Walmsley, said, this amendment also concerns the scope of the bar. Under the Bill, all posts in schools and in registered care homes would be covered by the bar. Ancillary posts in other care and health settings would not. It would not be feasible to make the bar apply to all posts in all services used by vulnerable adults, because the definition of "vulnerable" in the Bill is drawn so widely. It includes everyone who is receiving healthcare, which is pretty much the whole population at some point in their lives.
However, some services are wholly or primarily used by people who are disabled or who have impaired mental capacity. Those people should be afforded greater protection than is currently offered by the Bill. By using the definition in the National Assistance Acts, which relates to physical and learning disabilities, that can be achieved without making the scope of the bar wider than would be proportionate.
The effect of the amendment would be that all posts in settings such as day services for vulnerable adults would be subject to the bar, without making it apply to posts such as dentists' receptionists or a clerical worker in the social services department, which would clearly be disproportionate. A day centre worker is in a very different position from that of a dentist's receptionist. The latter has, in most cases, very irregular contact with the vulnerable person, whereas
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in a day centre relationships are established for good or ill—in many instances, those relationships are very important. Therefore, staff in day centres should be covered by the bar. The amendment recognises that and is aimed at protecting potentially vulnerable people from danger. I therefore hope that it will be accepted.
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