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House of Lords
Wednesday, 19 April 2006.
The House met at three of the clock: the LORD CHANCELLOR on the Woolsack.
Prayers—Read by the Lord Bishop of Worcester.
Middle East Peace Process
Lord Dykes asked Her Majesty's Government:
When they next expect to participate in the Middle East peace process road map negotiations following the general election in Israel.
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Lord Triesman): My Lords, we look forward to working with both the Israeli Government and the Palestinian president, Mahmoud Abbas, to move the peace process forward. We will continue to work with the international community to ensure that a just and lasting peace in the region is achieved.
Lord Dykes: My Lords, I thank the Minister for that Answer. Can we look on the bright side in an otherwise grim situation right now? At least there has been unusual restraint on the Israeli side, despite the bomb outrage in Tel Aviv. The Hamas-dominated Government have now had a truce for more than a year; there has been no violence coming from them directly. There are even rumours in Brussels and elsewhere—including Saudi Arabia—that there will possibly be behind-the-scenes pre-negotiations leading to incipient negotiations later, which may start soon between the various parties. Will the Government now seize the opportunity energetically to use the EU portion of the quartet to press for, simultaneously, Hamas recognition of the state of Israel's existence and a beginning to an Israeli withdrawal of its military from the 39-year occupation of the West Bank?
Lord Triesman: My Lords, it is incumbent on all members of the quartet, including the EU element, to take every opportunity that presents itself to move the road map process further along. It is not always easy to know exactly when the opportunities will occur, but we must be alert to them. We acknowledge the legitimacy of the election of the Hamas representatives to the Palestinian Authority, but it is also important to recognise the responsibilities that come with that; namely, to renounce violence and to recognise Israel and all previous agreements that have been made, including the road map. That is not an encumbrance: that is the process on which peace will rely.
Lord Wright of Richmond: My Lords, I deeply deplore the recent deaths caused by violence on both sides, including those resulting from the suicide bombing in Tel Aviv, but does the Minister accept that it is nevertheless unwise and unproductive for the
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quartet not to maintain relations with the Palestinian Authority's democratically elected Ministers? Can he give the House an assurance that Her Majesty's Government will similarly maintain contact at whatever level with the president of the Palestinian Authority and his Ministers?
Lord Triesman: My Lords, I give the assurance that we will maintain contact with the president of the Palestinian Authority, but I am afraid that I cannot give the assurance sought by the noble Lord on the maintenance of contact with Ministers. I have made the point that we will look for every opportunity to move forward, but we are sensibly working in the closest liaison in the quartet to achieve a full range of international pressure for two objectives: first, the renunciation of violence, the recognition of the state and, as I have said, commitments to past agreements on the one side; and secondly, on the Israeli side, living within legal borders and not making illegal incursions into Palestinian territory.
Lord Clarke of Hampstead: My Lords, will my noble friend join me in congratulating the Israeli Government on the tremendous reserve that they have shown in the face of this latest outrage and the way in which they have conducted themselves? Anyone sitting in the House or indeed anywhere else in the world, thinking that their loved ones could be blown to kingdom come by a suicide bomber, will know that that must have taken a superhuman effort on the part of the newly elected Government. Does my noble friend agree that talks taking place with any body at any level should make it absolutely clear that murdering innocent people will never help the long-term peace process in Israel?
Lord Triesman: My Lords, I agree with my noble friend and simply add my sentiments to those that have been expressed by my right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary in deploring what he has described as the,
which led to more unnecessary deaths. In making sure that we move towards a viable peace process, the international community through the quartet has made it clear that there must be a cessation of violence on all sides. The Russian Foreign Minister has made the point just as clearly as any other member of the quartet, and rightly so. The obligations on both sides, which I have described briefly already, are transparent: peace will not come if people continue to commit acts of violence in retribution, and peace will not come if there are illegal land seizures.
Lord Mackie of Benshie: My Lords, what are the personal relationships on our side with the elected leaders of the Hamas group? It is important that they realise their importance and what they can do for peace. Without personal contact there is not much hope.
Lord Triesman: My Lords, in the process leading up to the elections in both Palestine and Israel there were
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contacts, particularly with the elected mayors of some areas who were at least linked with Hamas—the exact nature of the relationship is not so clear to me—on the basis that the people involved had specifically renounced peace and people felt that there was a viable way of proceeding with them. I now say that there is a simple request from the international community that there should be a renunciation of violence. People cannot take part in a democratic process and one that is dictated by the gun. We have argued that for parts of the United Kingdom; we certainly cannot adopt a different standard for another country.
Lord Howell of Guildford: My Lords, I just want to add to the Minister's point that merely getting elected does not make you a democrat. That is very true and an important lesson for us all to remember.
Could the Minister also bring us up to date on the Palestinian Authority's cash position? Newspaper reports say that it is running out of all cash. Iran has offered a modest-sized loan or, indeed, a grant. Some of the emirates and other Arab states have produced some money. The United States is withholding money. What exactly will we be doing in the coming weeks?
Lord Triesman: My Lords, I am not in a position to comment on the sourcing of funds from other countries throughout the Middle East, although I have, of course, read the reports, as has the noble Lord, Lord Howell. In our case we have sustained the aid programme and made it clear that there is no intention of punishing or making life more debilitating for the Palestinian people by withholding these sums, which are going not to the authority but through the elected president, from the aid programmes to which we remain committed.
Prisons: HM Chief Inspector's Annual Report
3.14 pm
Lord Quirk asked Her Majesty's Government:
What steps they will take to address the concerns expressed in the latest annual report of H M Chief Inspector of Prisons.
The Minister of State, Home Office (Baroness Scotland of Asthal): My Lords, we hugely value the independent inspection of prisons. The report raises a number of broad issues which we are taking into account in the development of the National Offender Management Service. The Government have accepted the great majority of the recommendations of Her Majesty's Chief Inspector, Anne Owers, and are implementing them. For example, the number of prisons failing Adult Learning Inspectorate inspections has fallen, from 78 per cent in 2002–03 to 31 per cent between October 2005 and February 2006.
Lord Quirk: My Lords, I thank the Minister for her response, but as regards education and training, the Chief Inspector reported at page 30 that,
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Moreover, given that the time spent on purposeful activity is an important if imperfect guide and measure, is it not a matter of grave concern that, as stated on page 29, for a large proportion of the prisons inspected,
Is this not a case of inadequate provision plus cover-up?
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