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Lord Tomlinson: My Lords, is my noble friend aware that we have been promised the outcome of the energy review during 2006 but that that could be one
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month away or 10 months away? Will he help the House by giving us with greater precision some idea of when we might expect it?
Lord Davies of Oldham: My Lords, the important thing is that the review considers all the issues in full and effectively and gets the long-term energy supplies of this country right. We are talking about decades. It is not a question of rushing out a review. It is important that we have recognised that we have had difficulties this winter that will obtain next winter too and that we are attending to those issues immediately. The long-term issues to which my noble friend refers are the subject of the review, and that is not an issue to be rushed.
Lord Jenkin of Roding: My Lords, are the Government hoping for lower gas prices arising from the intervention of the European Union Competition Commissioner, according to her report of the 16th of this month? Do the Government recognise that there are formidable institutional obstacles to the liberalisation of the gas markets on the Continent and that the process is likely to take years rather than months? Are the difficulties that the Minister is facing, which the noble Lord, Lord Ezra, so graphically described, due far more to inadequate government planning and incentives than to any continental obstruction?
Lord Davies of Oldham: My Lords, I do not accept that. Whenever the noble Lord identifies what the Government could do constructively, it generally relates to issues that will bear fruit only in years to come. The problem that we have is the rapid rundown of North Sea supplies, which will occasion difficulties over the next 18 months. In those areas, the Government have been exceedingly active. I accept entirely his point that reforming the European energy market is a long haul. However, I indicated clearly that as soon as we had identified the key imperfection with regard to that market the Government's action was forthright and immediate and triggered immediate responses from the European Commission.
Lord Stoddart of Swindon: My Lords, will my noble friend confirm that the Government are seriously considering resuscitating the deep mine coal industry in this country, together with methods of gaining better clean coal technology?
Lord Davies of Oldham: My Lords, I hate to say it but the Question is about the short-term. The noble Lord's point involves the long-term and fits into the review to which I have alluded. We will look at what coal can contribute to the long-term energy needs of this country, although the noble Lord will recognise that the recovery of pits that have been lost is in almost every case an uneconomic proposition. The Question
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is about the short-term, which I have defined as this winter and next. That strategy is rather longer-term than that addressed by the Question.
Lord Skelmersdale: My Lords, as the Minister said, the Question is about the short term. What is the Government's planning figure for deaths from hypothermia this winter?
Lord Davies of Oldham: My Lords, the Government do not plan deaths. What we do is guard against fuel poverty which, especially for pensioners, makes a significant contribution to deaths in harsh winters. That is why we have the fuel allowance of £200, which has been paid this winter. That is why we pay an extra allowance to the over-80s; and why we are concerned to circulate the maximum amount of information to all members of the public about how they can constrain energy costs at this difficult time by responding to market opportunities. We all know that transferring from a high-cost provider to a lower-cost one can save families money. However, I hasten to add that we all worry about hypothermia and its contribution to deaths in this country. Ever since we came to power, the Government have regarded fuel poverty as a major issue to be tackled.
Lord Dearing: My Lords, on the review, does the Minister agree that the Government's decision to engage in a refurbishment of every secondary school and half of all primary schools during the next decade provides a wonderful opportunity to demonstrate the best standards of fuel economy and efficiency?
Lord Davies of Oldham: My Lords, in all government investment programmes, such as that for schools, which involve investment in new energy provision, we look to the costs in the market. There is no doubt—we all recognise this—that the period of cheap energy for this country based on our indigenous supplies, especially North Sea oil and gas, is largely over. The remaining reserves under our control are extremely expensive to exploit. So I entirely accept the Government's obligation to look at energy costs as a critical figure in investment programmes such as the one identified by the noble Lord.
Lord Marsh: My Lords, further to that, does the Minister recognise that the days of deep-mined coal have long since gone because of competition from countries with massive open-cast mines with which we cannot conceivably compete?
Lord Davies of Oldham: My Lords, we have for a long time seen foreign coal imported because it has been advantageous compared to British indigenous supplies, even with drift mines and surface mining. Of course, we have some coal reserves, which will play their part in energy supplies. They will not be deep mines—as the noble Lord said, it is not possible to recover lost mines—but coal has its role to play, as the
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noble Lord, Lord Ezra, has been keen to emphasise to the House on many occasions. That is within the framework of our overall energy provision.
Lord Whitty: My Lords, does my noble friend agree that it is important in both the short and long term that issues involving the efficient use of energy receive attention at least equal to that given to the source and supply of energy? Will he assure the House that that will indeed be a major feature of the energy review?
Lord Davies of Oldham: My Lords, it certainly will. There is no doubt that we must concern ourselves with the carbon imprint of our energy industries. We cannot hit our targets for the necessary reduction in carbon dioxide production without revision of how our energy is used. My noble friend also emphasised that we must look at ways of using energy efficiently and even, in certain areas, reducing the amount of energy consumed. That is an important part of the review.
Viscount Montgomery of Alamein: My Lords, on the question of the longer term, will the Minister ensure that sufficient weight is given to nuclear fusion, on which a great deal of basic research is still needed?
Lord Davies of Oldham: My Lords, nuclear power will be part of the energy review. That is why I was somewhat reluctant earlier to suggest that the review could be rushed. We need to consider all options, some of which involve the analysis of long-term research provision, which can lead to new technologies, not only in the field of nuclear power, which the noble Viscount identified. These are big issues. The review will consider energy supply over decades, and it should be recognised that we need to consider those issues fully.
Lord Ezra: My Lords, does the Minister agree that, although coal is generally a long-term issue, as he said, there are nevertheless certain short-term problems? First, surface mining in this country is being held up by the presumption against it in MPG3, which has been issued to local authorities. Secondly, three mines—Harworth, Rossington and Hatfield—are threatened with being mothballed and taken out of production unless there is urgent intervention. Would the Minister care to comment?
Lord Davies of Oldham: My Lords, the three mines are in danger because it is costly to produce the coal that they are producing now, even at a time of very high energy costs and when coal prices have also risen, although not as rapidly as gas prices have. Of course I recognise the point about the short term. We envisage a growth in surface mining in this country, but noble Lords will recognise that the surface mining of coal has a significant impact on the local environment and that we must have due regard to the future of our environment.
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Business of the House: Private Notice Question
3.07 pm
Lord Strathclyde: My Lords, I wish to draw to the attention of the House the fact that this morning I notified the Leader of the House that I wanted to ask the following Private Notice Question:
"To ask Her Majesty's Government if, in view of recent statements to the media by government Ministers, they will indicate to the House what are their future plans with regard to police on the House of Lords".
Imagine my surprise when I discovered that this Question had been turned down on the basis that it was not an urgent matter. Will the Leader of the House say what, on Saturday afternoon, made the Government brief the BBC and newspapers on the future of the House of Lords? Will she also say what made the Lord Chancellor break his engagements on Sunday and urgently go to the BBC studios to give an interview on the future of your Lordships' House when it is not sufficiently urgent to give a statement in this very House this afternoon? I am asking the Leader of the House not to reverse her decision now, although that would be a perfectly fair thing for her to do, but to consider very carefully whether she took the right decision and whether she believes that this House should be told before the media what the Government have in mind on the future of this House—an issue that is extremely important to every Member of your Lordships' House.
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