(HANSARD)in the first session of the fifty-fourth parliament of the united kingdom of great britain and northern ireland commencing on the eleventh day of may in the fifty-fourth year of the reign of
HER MAJESTY QUEEN ELIZABETH II
FIFTH SERIES VOLUME DCLXXIX
EIGHTH VOLUME OF SESSION 2005–06 House of Lords
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Monday, 27 February 2006.
The House met at half-past two of the clock: the LORD CHANCELLOR on the Woolsack.
Prayers—Read by the Lord Bishop of Newcastle.
Terrorist Suspects: Greece
Lord Ahmed asked Her Majesty's Government:
Whether any United Kingdom officials were involved in the treatment of 28 Pakistani terrorist suspects in Greece following the 7 July London bombings.
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Lord Triesman): My Lords, as my right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary said on 13 December 2005, there is no truth in the reports that UK officials have taken part in or been present at any alleged maltreatment of terror suspects in Greece.
Lord Ahmed: My Lords, I thank my noble friend for his reply. Did he read the reports in British newspapers that suggested that 5,400 Muslims were questioned by the Greek authorities as a result of a wrong telephone number supplied by the British intelligence services? Were the Greek authorities right to name the 45 year-old British agent who was supposed to have been present when 28 Pakistanis were allegedly tortured by the Greek authorities?
Lord Triesman: My Lords, I told the House that we had no involvement whatever and that it was completely untrue to suggest that we did. I regard it as unfortunate, to put it at its mildest, that anybody should name officials of the United Kingdom in an
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allied country; that is deplorable. I have read newspaper stories on the matter and think them fanciful and fiction.
Baroness Falkner of Margravine: My Lords, given that the Foreign Secretary indeed called the reports utter nonsense on 13 December but that since the beginning of the new year there have been persistent reports in British newspapers, apparently corroborated by British officials, that British intelligence agents were present at the interrogations in Greece, is the Intelligence and Security Committee inclined to look at these matters, so that we can carry out our own investigations? The Greek authorities have now embarked on full and formal investigations. I understand that the chairman of the committee in the other place, Paul Murphy, has indicated that he will look into the allegations.
Lord Triesman: My Lords, it is the right of committees to look at matters at which they choose to look and to address any questions that they wish to address to the Government; I would be the last person to try to dissuade them from doing so. However, I repeat—I cannot say it in any more unambiguous terms—that there has been fanciful, inaccurate and seriously damaging reporting that bears no relation to the truth.
QinetiQ: Privatisation
2.39 pm
Lord Goodlad asked Her Majesty's Government:
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Ministry of Defence (Lord Drayson): My Lords, the Treasury and the Ministry of Defence have agreed that the MoD will be able to retain £250 million of the
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receipts from the QinetiQ IPO, which represents 72 per cent of the total net receipt for reinvestment in the defence programme.
Lord Goodlad: My Lords, I thank the Minister for that reply. Is he aware that the defence industrial strategy acknowledges that we are living off past Ministry of Defence research investment, which has almost halved in the past few years, and says that in the coming decades the United Kingdom could fall behind our key allies and emerging economies in our ability to support sophisticated and competitive technology-based industries? Will the Minister assure the House that the current underinvestment in defence research will now be reversed?
Lord Drayson: My Lords, the noble Lord is correct in that the defence industrial strategy highlighted some important new research, showing the direct correlation between defence capability and research going back over 30 years. In carrying out that strategy, we have further highlighted the importance of investment in research. This year, the department is looking at the whole gamut of research undertakings that we fund and intends to publish the technology strategy for research this year, addressing the very point that the noble Lord raises.
Lord Garden: My Lords, the Armed Forces Pay Review Body report was slipped out as usual just before the recess under a Written Statement. It gives a great description of the problems in military manning and so on. Will the Minister undertake to use the QinetiQ windfall to address the urgent problem that the Secretary of State, Dr Reid, has recognised? He is quoted in the report as saying that the living accommodation for the services is worse than anything else in the services' welfare package. Will the Minister use the funds to address that problem?
Lord Drayson: My Lords, I shall resist the temptation to move off the subject of QinetiQ into wider matters of defence and simply answer that the funds from the proceeds of the QinetiQ IPO, which will be reinvested in defence, have not been earmarked. They will go into the defence budgeting process to be used in the normal way.
Lord Robertson of Port Ellen: My Lords, I congratulate my noble friend the Minister on getting a pretty good deal from the Treasury over the IPO for QinetiQ. Not everybody gets a good deal from the Treasury. As the Defence Secretary who made the decision in principle to put part of the Defence Evaluation and Research Agency into the private sector, my decision has been well and truly vindicated by events since then. The expertise and knowledge base that was invested in DERA is now coming to the fore and can be exploited not only for the benefit of this year's defence budget but for the country as a whole.
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Lord Drayson: My Lords, I am grateful to my noble friend for his comments and for allowing me to raise the general point that the process that the Government have undertaken with this reform has been vindicated in the success of the recent IPO of QinetiQ. This is a long-term process going back a number of years, but it has shown that an underinvested government research institution has been turned into a world-class business. It has been done in a way that has leveraged expertise from the private sector, and in doing so, has created something that can really deliver the research and equipment that our Armed Forces need. In the process, it has created more than £1 billion in value for the British taxpayer.
Lord Astor of Hever: My Lords, what veto or influence will the MoD have over QinetiQ providing research and evaluation for foreign governments or companies?
Lord Drayson: My Lords, we retain a golden share in QinetiQ, which gives us the opportunity to veto any transactions that we do not regard as being consistent with the British interest.
Lord Barnett: My Lords, it is true that the Treasury has been very kind to the MoD in this regard, but will my noble friend concede that in future it should have no bearing on any other privatisation proceeds, which must necessarily go to the department concerned?
Lord Drayson: My Lords, I do not wish to comment on further privatisations. Suffice it to say that the process used here is the staged process of privatisations, which has learnt lessons from the past. The costs of the QinetiQ IPO are the lowest of any privatisation that has taken place in the past 10 years, which is a good model for the approach in future privatisations.
Lord Stoddart of Swindon: My Lords, will the Minister give an absolute assurance that the Government's golden share will not be disposed of at some future date, as has been done in so many other privatised industries?
Lord Drayson: My Lords, it is not possible to give an absolute assurance, but we have absolutely no intention of relinquishing our golden share in QinetiQ.
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