| Previous Section | Back to Table of Contents | Lords Hansard Home Page |
Lord Peyton of Yeovil: My Lords, we can all understand the disappointment of Ministers in Defra and the DTI that the winds do not always obey them; I agree that that seems unnatural. Does the Minister think that the time has now come to take a serious look at the nuclear alternative? It is no good him bleating any longer about keeping the option open. The doors are all shutting in their faces.
Lord Sainsbury of Turville: My Lords, as the House well knows we are holding an energy review. We have made it clear that one of the options will be the nuclear option and that it will be very seriously considered in that review.
I cannot let the noble Lord get away with his extraordinary remarks about wind turbines. They do experience the problem of intermittency, but that is the case with every source of energy. In this country the load factor on wind is around 29 per cent, but we should remember that the load factor achieved on conventional thermal stations is between 39 and 50 per cent. No power stations operate with a load factor of 100 per cent. All energy sources have to have some kind of spinning reserve to provide back-up.
Lord Vinson: My Lords, is the noble Lord aware that in reply to an earlier Parliamentary Question of mine the power factor of wind turbines during the year 2004 was 26.1 per cent; that is, well under a third,
18 Jan 2006 : Column 662
which is the average world output? Does he agree that this is an inherently expensive and inefficient form of electricity generation which may make people feel good, but does not do an awful lot of good?
Lord Sainsbury of Turville: No, my Lords, I totally disagree. You have to drop to a load factor of around 22 per cent. Above that the supply begins to become economic, so the figures we are achieving are perfectly satisfactory. I also remind the noble Lord that we are talking about not the period of operation but the load factor and that the load factor is the amount of total capacity that an energy source could produce during a given period. Wind turbines are in fact operating on average for about 80 per cent of the time.
Baroness Miller of Hendon: My Lords—
Lord Ezra: My Lords, the noble Lord referred to the need to achieve a proper mix of energy sources, particularly in relation to electricity generation. Can he give an assurance that in the forthcoming energy review, adequate attention will be paid to the need for a back-up to wind power as it increases its proportion in order to achieve that effective mix?
Lord Sainsbury of Turville: My Lords, the question of intermittency between different sources of energy is one of the factors that must be taken into account. But, as I have pointed out, it is an issue with all energy sources.
Anti-social Behaviour Orders
2.58 pm
Lord Greaves asked Her Majesty's Government:
Whether they will put forward proposals to restrict the circumstances in which anti-social behaviour orders can be granted.
The Attorney-General (Lord Goldsmith): My Lords, no. The circumstances in which a court grants an anti-social behaviour order are already clearly set out in statute. Such an order can be made where the defendant has behaved in an anti-social manner: behaviour that caused or was likely to cause harassment, alarm or distress; and that an order is necessary for the protection of persons from further anti-social behaviour. The position is reinforced by decisions of higher courts, which have set out clear guidance on how such orders should be drafted and to ensure that they are proportionate to the legitimate aim of protecting the community from further abuse.
Lord Greaves: My Lords, I thank the Attorney-General for that Answer. Is he aware of the lady in Aberystwyth who, after several attempts to take her own life, has been given an ASBO which bans her from walking on the beach or going into the sea? That case follows on at least one other last year, when a lady in Bath was banned from jumping into canals and rivers or on to railway lines. Do the Government really think
18 Jan 2006 : Column 663
that if people are intent on taking their own lives in such tragic circumstances, serving an anti-social behaviour order on them is the best way to help?
Lord Goldsmith: My Lords, I do not know about those two particular cases. I am always happy to look at cases if enough details are sent to us so that we can examine them. But, of course, the orders are made by the courts; it is their decision whether an order should be made. It is often forgotten that anti-social behaviour orders are often a very important way of getting urgent intervention to people who are in need of help which otherwise they would not get. I have a host of cases in my briefing; for example, of young people against whom anti-social behaviour orders were made whose lives have been turned around because of the intervention by social services and others which has come about as the order has been made.
Lord Howarth of Newport: My Lords, does my noble and learned friend agree that ASBOs have been a shaft of light for people afflicted by persistent anti-social behaviour in their neighbourhoods? While of course common sense must be applied in the issuance of ASBOs and they should not be available casually, does he further agree that when ASBOs have been handed down they should be enforced unfailingly and that there should be severe penalties for breaches of these orders?
Lord Goldsmith: My Lords, I agree with both the points made by my noble friend. The evidence is clear that people believe their quality of life has been significantly improved where appropriate anti-social behaviour orders have been made. The Home Affairs Committee in another place recently made clear its view that anti-social behaviour orders have helped. They are only a part of the overall approach to helping with quality of life problems and dealing with the nuisance and harassment that people suffer in their communities. I also agree that where orders are made they need to be enforced.
Viscount Bridgeman: My Lords, the Attorney-General will be aware that the number of ASBOs per head of population varies among different authorities by as much as 90 per cent. In view of the potentially serious penalties for breaches of ASBOs, will the Government take steps to follow the lead of, for example, Camden, where there is a procedure for a number of preliminary cautionary steps to be followed before an ASBO is applied for?
Lord Goldsmith: My Lords, the Home Office gives guidance as to the steps which ought to be taken. I know that local authorities, in partnership with other agencies, discuss and debate what procedures ought to be in place and I am sure that they look to the examples of particular authorities to see whether they work. Other authorities will find that they have different problems to deal with and that different responses are appropriate.
18 Jan 2006 : Column 664
Lord Laming: My Lords, following on from the previous question, does the noble and learned Lord agree that local authorities and voluntary organisations need to be encouraged to develop new and more constructive ways to engage with those young people who feel alienated from our society and behave in destructive ways, to themselves as well as to others?
Lord Goldsmith: My Lords, I agree with the noble Lord. Of course, the Respect Action Plan, which was launched last week, indicates the range of measures which the Government hope will be taken—including by authorities, which will be helped by the Government to do so—in a number of areas. A very important area is how to divert young people, through sport, culture, the arts and other programmes, from causing trouble and being a problem.
Lord Soley: My Lords, can the Attorney-General confirm that one of the great advantages of ASBOs is that they give a great deal of flexibility to local courts for what are very often local problems? If we try to over-centralise and over-control on that, we will remove one of the great assets that they bring to local communities.
Lord Goldsmith: My Lords, I agree with my noble friend. In the past we perhaps concentrated a great deal on the most serous offences and did not concentrate enough on the offences which affect far more people ultimately than the most serious offences do. My noble friend is absolutely right that flexibility to respond to local needs is important, and the Government believe in working in partnership with local agencies and authorities to achieve that end.
Lord Woolf: My Lords, does the noble and learned Lord agree that, in relation to the enforcement of ASBOs—that is, dealing with the breaches—it is very important that the response is proportionate to what was done originally to justify the ASBO and the nature of the conduct which is said to be the breach? Is this an area where perhaps, in due course, the Sentencing Guidelines Council might give assistance?
| Next Section | Back to Table of Contents | Lords Hansard Home Page |