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Lord Clarke of Hampstead: My Lords, in the three minutes left before I am advised this debate has to conclude, I want to thank all noble Lords who have taken part in what I consider to be an important and interesting debate. My colleagues on this side of the House will understand if I do not refer to their individual contributions, but simply say how grateful I am to them. I will be saying something about one of those speeches, though, if my time does not run out.
I thank the noble Lord, Lord De Mauley, for the way he was able to put the case for the magazine publishers that I had to cut out of my original speech. That will be helpful for them, and will be helpful for me to go back to it when I read the debate. The noble Baroness, Lady Miller, is a great friend of the Post Office. I well remember the millionth packet she posted from her company, and the silver salver that
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was presented to staff at the time. It still resides on the windowsill of my old office—or the office I would have if I were still doing that job.
I would like to go back to the days when we had 18 deliveries a week—even though they would stop when we went to the Arsenal on a Saturday afternoon when I had to deliver up Finchley Road, where the noble Baroness lives—and six collections a day, but those days have gone, and I accept the need for change. I found the description given by the noble Lord, Lord Cameron, of the social needs of our rural communities very moving. It set the scene for a number of other speakers. I will not list them all, but many speakers in this debate have mentioned this important issue. I am delighted that this House takes seriously the need to maintain the social fabric in communities. Politics aside, we have a system in this country we should be proud of, and we should do our best to maintain it.
I was pleased to hear the wise words of the noble Lord, Lord Dearing, the only other post office worker in this debate—the noble Lord, Lord Young, was a telecoms man. The words of the noble Lord, Lord Dearing, are always wise, although they were not accepted as such when we were on the other side of the table trying to get an extra half per cent on our pay claims. I am sure the points he has raised have given food for thought.
I shall mention just one person on this side of the House, and that is the noble Lord, Lord O'Neill. I do not know whether it was offensive or I am being over-sensitive, but to describe Post Office managers in the past as not being competent, and then to pray in aid the change, is a bit unfair. No Post Office chief executive or chairman ever had the scope they have had since Allan Leighton came on the scene. No one else cut the deliveries down to one a day. The noble Baroness, Lady Miller, mentioned that by the time you get the mail now, it is time to go home. And he talks about change. I was part of the working projects on automated letter-facing, mechanisation, and optical character recognition. Many things were developed by technicians in the Post Office research department that were foreseeing the future, and other countries have benefited from them. It would be unfair to draw any distinction about what happened in those days, because the money was not there to continue with that research.
In conclusion, thanks again to everyone who has taken part in this debate. I beg leave to withdraw the Motion for Papers.
Motion for Papers, by leave, withdrawn.
Safeguarding Children
2.08 pm
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Education and Skills (Lord Adonis):
My Lords, with leave, I will repeat a Statement on arrangements on vetting and barring those who work
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with children, made in another place by the Secretary of State for Education and Skills. The Statement is as follows:
"Mr Speaker, I am grateful for this opportunity to make a statement about the arrangements for vetting and barring those who work with children. As the House knows, I laid a Written Ministerial Statement at 9.30 yesterday morning, and I am grateful for this opportunity to update Members of the House and answer questions.
"Child protection has been a top priority for this Government, as it was for the previous administration. Over the past 10 years the child protection system has improved fundamentally as a result of action taken first by the party opposite, which we have then built on with cross-party support in reforming our sex offences laws and setting up the Criminal Records Bureau. Given the scale of change over the past decade, it is helpful to set out briefly the systems currently in place before examining how the problems have arisen and what I propose to do about them.
"List 99 covers those barred for life from working in schools, and has been in place for decades. The decision-making process has remained substantially the same, with Ministers required under law to make sensitive child protection judgments on individuals who have come to the attention of the police. There will be Members on both sides of the House with experience of making such difficult judgments.
"We have significantly tightened List 99 in recent years. However, it does not act in isolation. The previous government paved the way for the introduction of the sex offenders register. We have established the Criminal Records Bureau. We have now committed to further strengthen the system through the implementation of a new vetting and barring scheme as recommended by Sir Michael Bichard. All these measures have significantly tightened the protection available to children and ensured that we have some of the toughest sex offender laws in Europe.
"The system currently works in the following way. Where a teacher is convicted of one of a number of specified offences they will automatically go on List 99 which bars them from working in schools. The vast majority of sex offenders are therefore automatically barred from working in schools.
"For other offences, or where the individual has received a caution, the law currently means that each case must be considered individually with a decision taken by Ministers, based on evidence and advice even though the individual will have been placed by the police on the sex offenders register. In my Statement yesterday I said that initial inquiries indicate that there have been a small number of such difficult cases. I fully understand the concern that this has caused and am determined to do something about it. I have therefore commissioned as a matter of urgency an exhaustive review of all such cases since the introduction of the sex offenders register
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in 1997 in order to confirm the precise number of these individuals, their whereabouts and whether their behaviour has been of concern to the authorities.
"However, I am sure that both sides of the House will agree that these cases raise questions about whether these long-standing arrangements need to be changed. I will therefore also review urgently the decision-making process surrounding such cases and the policy implications: in particular, how the closest possible alignment can be secured between List 99, the sex offenders register and other data sources; the role of Ministers in the decision-making process; and how police advice can be more fully considered prior to decisions being made. This review will take place with the greatest possible speed and I will report to the House as soon as the facts have been established and I have reached my conclusion.
"Finally, I should reiterate the Government's commitment to implement Sir Michael Bichard's recommendations to tighten the system for vetting and barring those who wish to work with children and vulnerable adults, and to bring forward legislation in this session of Parliament. The Bichard system will also entail vetting in advance of entry into the children's workforce; the continuous updating of police information; and the ability for parents to check whether tutors, nannies and other individuals they employ are barred, and it will ensure that cautions and convictions are treated in exactly the same way.
"The House will remember that legislation to implement the Bichard report was in the Queen's Speech. I can announce today that the Government will be in a position to bring forward this legislation at the end of February. Assuming the full co-operation of the other parties, I am confident that parliamentary time could be found for the Bill this Session.
"I share and understand the concerns these cases have raised. That is why I made my Statement to this House at 9.30 yesterday morning and why I am grateful for this opportunity to discuss the matter on the Floor of the House. As Secretary of State I am accountable for all decisions taken in my department and I am determined to keep the House and the public informed. That is why the review I announced yesterday will take place with the greatest possible speed and I will make a further statement to the House as soon as I have considered its conclusions".
My Lords, that concludes the Statement.
2.13 pm
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