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Lord Bradshaw : My Lords, in response to the point made by the noble Earl and the noble Lord, Lord Hanningfield, what has been proposed does not affect the ability of the local authority, or indeed the
10 Jan 2006 : Column 71
parish council, to say that they want a different speed limit. It sets the default limit at 30 mph, but people may vary that limit up or down.
Earl Attlee: My Lords, where does the amendment make that provision?
Lord Bradshaw: No, my Lords, I cannot say where.
Lord Davies of Oldham: My Lords, I cannot see where the amendment says that either. I thought the intention behind the amendment was to universalise the 30 mph limit, an objective to which the Government subscribe. We have announced and made clear that we think villages should have a 30 mph limit, but there may be departures from that. The noble Lord, Lord Hanningfield, and the noble Earl, Lord Attlee, indicated instances where that might not be the appropriate limit.
If we did universalise 30 mph in legislation, what is then to be said to those who say that some villages ought to be protected by a 20 mph limit? How, with primary legislation in place and with 30 mph set out in statute, do we make advances on that front? I know many people wish to see that in certain villages. It is because of that factor that the argument presented by the noble Lord, Lord Hanningfield, is the cardinal one: we believe, and we have indicated, that for the protection of rural communities the most appropriate speed limit is 30 mph, but that local people should have the right to make their decisions on this matter. We have indicated that when traffic authorities are asked to review the speed limits on their A and B roads, as they have been asked to do by 2011 in accordance with updated guidance on setting local speed limits, village speed limits will be included in these reviews. The guidance will restate the government policy of 30 mph limits for villages, and we will encourage their implementation where appropriate.
So we are clear about what we would like to see, but the appropriate traffic authorities already have the necessary powers to set the appropriate speed limit through villages. A large majority of them are of course taking advantage of this, and therefore I see no reason to accept an amendment to the primary legislation represented by this Bill when we have declared a national policy, and it is for local people to take the decision on when they abide, and wish to abide, by that national policy.
Lord Bradshaw: My Lords, when we introduced the 30 mph limit into villages in Oxfordshire—as, I imagine, was the case in Essex, although I do not know about Essex—every parish council was consulted. They set the limits that were laid down. Each parish council said where the 30 mph signs were to go, and if they wanted 40 or 20, those have been applied. There is variation, and I think that responds to the point made by the noble Earl, Lord Attlee: once
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you make a national speed limit, it is for each parish council that is consulted to come back with the limits of various speeds throughout the village area.
Lord Davies of Oldham: My Lords, if that is the point which the noble Lord makes, which I accept entirely, I do not see the advantage of the amendment.
Baroness Scott of Needham Market: My Lords, I thank noble Lords who supported the amendment. I put on record that I am very disappointed by the lack of support both from the Conservative Benches and from the Government. We all agree that what we are aiming to achieve here is a 30 mph speed limit in most of our villages. Everyone accepts that there are villages where that is not suitable. We already have a default speed limit of 60 mph. There is a huge amount of statutory bureaucracy, and local authorities have to jump through a lot of hoops to give villages what they want and deserve—a 30 mph speed limit.
Local authorities are getting more and more cash strapped. We have had a lot of debate in this House about the shortfall in funding that local government is reporting, yet we are asking local authorities to find extra money from their budgets to implement 30 mph speed limits which, as the Minister himself has said, is government policy. What I am asking now, and have asked repeatedly, is: if this is government policy, what are the Government actually doing about it? The Minister has come up with not one suggestion on how this measure can be made easier for local authorities and how the cost burden can be reduced. If the Government are serious about reducing speed limits in villages and introducing 30 mph limits, they could at least try to reduce the bureaucratic burden, even if they do not feel that they can support this amendment.
I reiterate that this measure is not about reducing any element of local choice or discretion—that would remain the same—it would simply move the default speed limit from the current 60 mph to 30 mph. Clearly, I am not happy with what I have heard from the Minister and I wish to test the opinion of the House.
3.52 pm
On Question, Whether the said amendment (No. 3) shall be agreed to?
Their Lordships divided: Contents, 76; Not-Contents, 158
Division No.1
Addington, L.
Alton of Liverpool, L.
Armstrong of Ilminster, L.
Avebury, L.
Barker, B.
Bradshaw, L.
Chidgey, L.
Craigavon, V.
Darcy de Knayth, B.
Dholakia, L.
D'Souza, B.
Dundee, E.
Dykes, L.
Ezra, L.
Falkland, V.
Falkner of Margravine, B.
Fearn, L.
Finlay of Llandaff, B.
Garden, L.
Gardner of Parkes, B.
Goodhart, L.
Greaves, L.
Greengross, B.
Harris of Richmond, B.
Howarth of Breckland, B.
Joffe, L.
Kirkwood of Kirkhope, L.
Laird, L.
Lester of Herne Hill, L.
Livsey of Talgarth, L.
Mackie of Benshie, L.
Maclennan of Rogart, L.
McNally, L.
Maddock, B.
Maginnis of Drumglass, L.
Mar and Kellie, E.
Marsh, L.
Masham of Ilton, B.
Methuen, L.
Miller of Chilthorne Domer, B.
Molyneaux of Killead, L.
Montgomery of Alamein, V.
Neuberger, B.
Newby, L.
Northbourne, L.
Northover, B.
O'Cathain, B.
Phillips of Sudbury, L.
Redesdale, L.
Renton, L.
Roberts of Llandudno, L.
Rodgers of Quarry Bank, L.
Roper, L.
Russell-Johnston, L.
St John of Fawsley, L.
Scott of Needham Market, B. [Teller]
Sharp of Guildford, B.
Sharples, B.
Shutt of Greetland, L. [Teller]
Smith of Clifton, L.
Steel of Aikwood, L.
Stewartby, L.
Swinfen, L.
Taverne, L.
Tenby, V.
Thomas of Gresford, L.
Thomson of Monifieth, L.
Tonge, B.
Tordoff, L.
Vallance of Tummel, L.
Wallace of Saltaire, L.
Walmsley, B.
Walpole, L.
Williams of Crosby, B.
Williamson of Horton, L.
Willoughby de Broke, L.
Ackner, L.
Acton, L.
Adonis, L.
Alli, L.
Amos, B. [Lord Privy Seal.]
Anderson of Swansea, L.
Andrews, B.
Ashton of Upholland, B.
Attlee, E.
Bach, L.
Barnett, L.
Bassam of Brighton, L.
Bernstein of Craigweil, L.
Bilston, L.
Blackstone, B.
Blackwell, L.
Bledisloe, V.
Blood, B.
Boothroyd, B.
Borrie, L.
Brooke of Alverthorpe, L.
Brookman, L.
Burlison, L.
Campbell-Savours, L.
Carter, L.
Chorley, L.
Christopher, L.
Clark of Calton, B.
Clark of Windermere, L.
Clarke of Hampstead, L.
Clinton-Davis, L.
Cohen of Pimlico, B.
Corbett of Castle Vale, L.
Crawley, B. [Teller]
Cunningham of Felling, L.
David, B.
Davies of Oldham, L.
Dean of Thornton-le-Fylde, B.
Dixon, L.
Drayson, L.
Dubs, L.
Elder, L.
Evans of Parkside, L.
Evans of Temple Guiting, L.
Falconer of Thoroton, L. [Lord Chancellor.]
Farrington of Ribbleton, B.
Faulkner of Worcester, L.
Filkin, L.
Foster of Bishop Auckland, L.
Foulkes of Cumnock, L.
Fyfe of Fairfield, L.
Gale, B.
Gavron, L.
Giddens, L.
Gilbert, L.
Golding, B.
Gordon of Strathblane, L.
Goudie, B.
Gould of Brookwood, L.
Gould of Potternewton, B.
Greenway, L.
Griffiths of Burry Port, L.
Grocott, L. [Teller]
Harris of Haringey, L.
Harrison, L.
Hart of Chilton, L.
Haskel, L.
Haworth, L.
Hayman, B.
Henig, B.
Hilton of Eggardon, B.
Hogg of Cumbernauld, L.
Hollis of Heigham, B.
Howarth of Newport, L.
Howells of St. Davids, B.
Hoyle, L.
Hughes of Woodside, L.
Hunt of Kings Heath, L.
Irvine of Lairg, L.
Jones, L.
Judd, L.
Kennedy of The Shaws, B.
Kirkhill, L.
Layard, L.
Lea of Crondall, L.
Lipsey, L.
Listowel, E.
Lockwood, B.
Lofthouse of Pontefract, L.
McDonagh, B.
Macdonald of Tradeston, L.
McIntosh of Haringey, L.
McIntosh of Hudnall, B.
Mackenzie of Framwellgate, L.
McKenzie of Luton, L.
Mallalieu, B.
Mason of Barnsley, L.
Massey of Darwen, B.
Maxton, L.
Mitchell, L.
Moonie, L.
Morgan, L.
Morgan of Drefelin, B.
Morris of Aberavon, L.
Morris of Manchester, L.
Moser, L.
Murphy, B.
Nicol, B.
O'Neill of Clackmannan, L.
Ouseley, L.
Palmer, L.
Paul, L.
Pendry, L.
Peston, L.
Plant of Highfield, L.
Ponsonby of Shulbrede, L.
Prys-Davies, L.
Ramsay of Cartvale, B.
Randall of St. Budeaux, L.
Richard, L.
Rogan, L.
Rosser, L.
Royall of Blaisdon, B.
Sainsbury of Turville, L.
Sandwich, E.
Scotland of Asthal, B.
Sewel, L.
Sheldon, L.
Simon, V.
Skidelsky, L.
Smith of Gilmorehill, B.
Smith of Leigh, L.
Snape, L.
Soley, L.
Stoddart of Swindon, L.
Strabolgi, L.
Sutherland of Houndwood, L.
Symons of Vernham Dean, B.
Taylor of Blackburn, L.
Taylor of Bolton, B.
Temple-Morris, L.
Thornton, B.
Trenchard, V.
Triesman, L.
Truscott, L.
Tunnicliffe, L.
Turnberg, L.
Turner of Camden, B.
Wall of New Barnet, B.
Warner, L.
Warnock, B.
Warwick of Undercliffe, B.
Wedderburn of Charlton, L.
Whitaker, B.
Wilkins, B.
Williams of Elvel, L.
Woolmer of Leeds, L.
Young of Norwood Green, L.
Resolved in the negative, and amendment disagreed to accordingly.
10 Jan 2006 : Column 74
4.03 pm
Clause 20 [Causing death by careless, or inconsiderate, driving]:
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