Lords Hansard text for 21 Mar 2005 (250321-01)

Hansard

House of Lords

Monday, 21 March 2005.

The House met at half-past two of the clock: The LORD CHANCELLOR on the Woolsack.

Prayers—Read by the Lord Bishop of Liverpool.

Telephones: Unsolicited Calls

Lord Faulkner of Worcester asked Her Majesty's Government:

What steps they are taking to curb the activities of companies which make unsolicited telephone calls to householders with the intention of inducing them to ring premium rate phone lines to claim non-existent prizes.

The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department of Trade and Industry (Lord Sainsbury of Turville): My Lords, the Independent Committee for the Supervision of Standards of Telephone Information Services (ICSTIS) has responsibility for the supervision of all premium rate services (PRS). Providers found in breach of ICSTIS's code of practice can be shut down, barred from operating and heavily fined. ICSTIS has taken action against those who have breached its code. Following a request from the DTI, Ofcom has made recommendations to further strengthen the powers of ICSTIS. These are now being implemented.

In addition, householders are protected from such unsolicited calls through the Telephone Preference Service (TPS) scheme, which is enforced by the Information Commissioner. On a breach of ICSTIS's code, ICSTIS would act; if such unsolicited calls complied with the code, the Information Commissioner would act.

Lord Faulkner of Worcester: My Lords, I am sure I am not the only Member of your Lordships' House

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who has come home and found a message on the answering machine saying that I have won a car, an exotic holiday, a television or a large sum of cash and that all I need to do to claim it is to ring a premium rate telephone line. I hear what my noble friend says, but given the fact that the Trading Standards Institute says that this problem is now of epidemic proportions, does he really believe that the regulators are able to cope, because so many of these calls originate overseas and are beyond its jurisdiction? Does he believe that telephone companies should put a warning on their bills which states, "If it sounds too good to be true, it almost certainly is"?

Lord Sainsbury of Turville: My Lords, the DTI and Ofcom are aware of the recent increase of PRS cases, which is why the DTI asked Ofcom to review the regulation of PRS. Ofcom produced its report in December 2004. Its recommendations covered increased enforcement powers for ICSTIS, increased fines for those that breach the ICSTIS code of practice, better consumer redress and better consumer information. Those recommendations have now been implemented and they will go a long way to help the situation.

Baroness Howe of Idlicote: My Lords, these awful scams are carried out not only via the telephone but equally via the mail, and the numbers have grown, as we have heard, to epidemic proportions. How many successful cases have been brought under existing legislation, via ICSTIS and any other organisation with responsibility for the mail side? Do the Government expect many such cases to be brought successfully should the Gambling Bill become law?

Lord Sainsbury of Turville: My Lords, there have been a number of successful cases. In 2004 ICSTIS issued two fines of £100,000 against companies which were found to be in breach of its code of practice concerning recorded competition phone lines. So there is a record of implementing the code. With the increased powers that should occur even more in the future.

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Lord Razzall: My Lords, does the Minister accept that the word "epidemic", which two noble Lords have now used, is certainly appropriate for the sort of cause that the noble Lord, Lord Faulkner, has raised? Does he also accept that we are moving into a period in which there will be an epidemic of telephone calls to voters in the next five weeks? Will he also accept that the 7 million people who have registered for the Telephone Preference Service are not expecting to be telephoned by Voter Vault, the Labour Party, or, indeed, the Liberal Democrat Party? What steps will he take to ensure that the Information Commissioner prevents that happening?

Lord Sainsbury of Turville: My Lords, I am sure that any messages received during this period will be more accurate than those received as part of the games that we have discussed. But I agree that that is not setting a very high standard for our colleagues. The question turns on whether the Telephone Preference Service is covered. I do not know the technicalities of whether that applies to election services, but I shall find out and let the noble Lord know.

Lord Lea of Crondall: My Lords—

Lord Neill of Bladen: My Lords—

The Lord President of the Council (Baroness Amos): My Lords, we have had one Cross-Bench speaker and one Labour speaker, so I suggest that we have someone from the Labour Benches and then the Cross Benches.

Lord Lea of Crondall: My Lords, I have drawn my noble friend's attention to a Written Question I tabled on this on 2 March, to which I have not yet received a reply. Will he take on board the fact that the Information Commissioner's office is not user-friendly? In particular, it appears to publish no results of any monitoring, including on complaints from the public, about whether the Telephone Preference Service scheme is actually working. Is that not a failure to carry out the duty placed upon it?

Lord Sainsbury of Turville: My Lords, the noble Lord told me that this question was coming. I understand that the answer will, coincidentally, be given this afternoon by my noble friend Lady Ashton of Upholland. I am told that I am not allowed to give my noble friend a sneak preview as that would go against the protocol of the House. I am afraid that he will have to wait a few more minutes for an enormously interesting answer.

Lord Neill of Bladen: My Lords, is the Minister aware of the fact that part of the technique with these telephone calls is to withhold the source? If you dial 1471 immediately after you have had such a call, you will find that the number has been withheld or is unavailable.

I had a call from a lady on Friday who said that her name was Anastasia. I naturally refrained from asking whether she could throw light on a long-standing

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problem. The upshot was that she offered some absurd prize. All I did was to check whether 1471 worked and there was no number. It is something that needs looking into.

Lord Sainsbury of Turville: My Lords, I am appalled at the thought that the noble Lord is pestered by Anastasias in that way. I shall certainly see what can be done to stop this kind of situation.

Lord Roberts of Conwy: My Lords, having received two offers of exotic holidays only this lunchtime, do the Government realise fully just what an epidemic we have on our hands? Do not the companies deserve the Grand Slam treatment that Wales gave to Ireland on Saturday?

Lord Sainsbury of Turville: My Lords, we realise how serious this matter is. We have already taken action in this case to make certain that further powers are given to ICSTIS to stop the epidemic, because it is extremely bad that such a cheap scam should take place.

Lord Campbell-Savours: My Lords, why cannot we have a registration system for approved, premium call operators? Why cannot we prevail on BT not to pay the premium operators their share of the call costs?

Lord Sainsbury of Turville: My Lords, we have done it the other way round to make certain that people have the ability to stop the calls. Of course, there are many premium rate services that people greatly appreciate.

Lord Boston of Faversham: My Lords, although it is possible successfully to stop the calls coming in if they are made in this country, can the Minister offer any help so far as calls made from overseas are concerned? It seems that it is not possible to block those calls at the moment.

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