MONDAY 22 OCTOBER 2007

MR ROB GREIG

  Q114  Chairman: Good afternoon, everybody. Welcome to another of our open sessions on our inquiry into the Human Rights of Adults with Learning Disabilities. We are joined by Rob Greig, who is the National Director for Learning Disabilities and Co-Chair of the National Task Force for Learning Disabilities. So welcome, and thanks for coming at relatively short notice, I think.

  Mr Greig: That is fine.

  Q115  Chairman: Do you want to say anything before we start?

  Mr Greig: If I could briefly just say two lines about my role, which is a kind of slightly strange role, perhaps, so you know the context in which it operates. As a national director, I am seconded into government with two lines at the top of my job description. One is that my role is to represent government to the field in relation to people with learning disabilities; that is not just the Department of Health, although I am based there. The other is to represent the field, that is people with learning disabilities and families, into government, which creates a tension occasionally, shall we say. Therefore, in a sense, it is with those two hats, the particular interest in the lives of people with learning disabilities, but also representing government, that I am here today to answer your questions.

  Q116  Chairman: You are piggy in the middle and get the blame from both sides, presumably?

  Mr Greig: On a good day, they think I am okay, but yes.

  Q117  Earl of Onslow: You have to negotiate with yourself and agree with yourself, is that right?

  Mr Greig: In part, yes.

  Q118  Chairman: Perhaps I could start by asking you about what MENCAP told us, which was that despite the various commitments to human rights of people with learning disabilities in the Valuing People document, there is still a long way to go on delivering on that. Why do you think, six years on, there is such a gulf between the policy and what is actually happening on the ground?

  Mr Greig: I think it is primarily because of the levers that are available to deliver the policy. The policy has widespread support in the country, but I think it is true to say that if you look at things like the performance framework and other ways that government uses to get people to comply with policy, they are limited. Therefore, we have had to rely significantly upon persuading people that they want to make those changes. Obviously things like the Disability Discrimination Act, and, in particular, the Disability Equality Duty, add additional new important levers, but I would say that is the major reason.

  Q119  Chairman: Do you think a rights-based approach can work? We get the impression it has not actually led to any real change so far.

  Mr Greig: I think it has led to change, in the sense that the culture and the attitude of people in many services is changing, and certainly people are aware of what they should be doing differently. To specifically answer your question, I think it is the right approach, because getting people to understand that this is not something you do because you want to be nice to disabled people, but is actually their rights as equal citizens, and building that into working patterns, is the way forward. We have plenty of anecdotal information and stories as to where that has had a good impact, but we are still some way from it being a reality for the majority of people.