The
Committee consisted of the following
Members:
Chairman:
Mr.
Eric Illsley
Blizzard,
Mr. Bob
(Lord Commissioner of Her Majesty's
Treasury)
Bone,
Mr. Peter
(Wellingborough)
(Con)
Clarke,
Mr. Charles
(Norwich, South)
(Lab)
Fabricant,
Michael
(Lichfield)
(Con)
George,
Mr. Bruce
(Walsall, South)
(Lab)
Grogan,
Mr. John
(Selby)
(Lab)
Hurd,
Mr. Nick
(Ruislip-Northwood)
(Con)
Leigh,
Mr. Edward
(Gainsborough)
(Con)
Moffatt,
Laura
(Crawley)
(Lab)
Purnell,
James
(Stalybridge and Hyde)
(Lab)
Roy,
Lindsay
(Glenrothes)
(Lab)
Smith,
Angela E.
(Minister of State, Cabinet
Office)
Smith,
Geraldine
(Morecambe and Lunesdale)
(Lab)
Syms,
Mr. Robert
(Poole)
(Con)
Williams,
Stephen
(Bristol, West)
(LD)
Willott,
Jenny
(Cardiff, Central)
(LD)
Mark Etherton, Committee
Clerk
attended the
Committee
Fourth
Delegated Legislation
Committee
Tuesday 20
October
2009
[Mr.
Eric Illsley in the
Chair]
Draft
Statistics and Registration Service Act 2007 (Disclosure of Higher
Education Student Information) Regulations
2009
10.30
am
The
Minister of State, Cabinet Office (Angela E. Smith): I beg
to
move,
That
the Committee has considered the draft Statistics and Registration
Service Act 2007 (Disclosure of Higher Education Student Information)
Regulations
2009.
It
is a pleasure to serve again, Mr. Illsley, with you chairing
the Committee with your customary fairness and good humour.
The
regulations are the second use of the data sharing powers under the
Statistics and Registration Service Act 2007, and make possible the
sharing of data on students in higher education. They are not about new
data collection, but further utilisation of data that have already been
collected. Without them it would not be possible for the Office for
National Statistics to have access to the relevant data on students in
higher education. It may help the Committee to know that the
regulations were debated and approved in another place on 8
July.
The
regulations and the previous regulations, which permitted the sharing
of data from the schools census, are part of a wider programme of
workthe migration and population statistics improvement
programmebeing taken forward by the national statistician. The
programme is intended to deal with the problems encountered in
estimating highly mobile populations, taking into account short-term
migration. Providing the ONS with access to administrative data that
has already been collected, and which is held by Government Departments
and their agencies, is essential if the ONS is to meet increasing
demands for new and improved population and migration
statistics.
The
Government are committed to doing all that they can to help to improve
the accuracy of the population estimates, particularly at local level.
That is in direct response to concerns that have been raised by local
government and others, including the Treasury Committee, about the
accuracy of population and migration statistics. Both local and central
government need accurate information on migrant numbers and the overall
changes to the size and structure of the population at local level, for
resource allocation and the planning and delivery of local services. In
supporting the regulations, the Committee will help to ensure a fairer
allocation of resources to local authorities and to other bodies in
future
years.
The
ONS has evaluated the data being collected on students in higher
education and has identified the information that it needs for
improvement of population and migration statistics. The regulations
will allow the Higher Education Statistics Agency, the body that
collates the information on behalf of the Higher Education
Funding Councils for England and Wales, to share the information with
the ONS. It could not, otherwise, be shared. The information includes
the name, date of birth, gender and ethnicity of the student, details
of their home and term-time postcodes, and information to facilitate
understanding of when moves take place. All that information is set out
in the
regulations.
Access
to the data will enable the ONS to try to develop new approaches for
its derivation of population estimates and projections, including
better estimates of the number of migrants, improved accuracy of
mid-year estimates, projections of populations for local areas,
including areas with high rates of population turnover, and development
of continuing research into use of the administrative data in updating
population statistics without a traditional census. In addition, access
to the data will help the ONS to improve the enumeration of students in
the 2011 census, and to improve the assessment of the quality of
statistics on students in that
census.
Michael
Fabricant (Lichfield) (Con): Who will define the
ethnicitythe person preparing the statistic, or the individual
concerned? In some instances there may be a
variance.
Angela
E. Smith: It is important to stick to the established
procedure which is that the person filling in the form defines their
ethnicity.
Regulations
also make provision for the ONS to disclose the records of students
living in Scotland and attending a higher education institution in
England or Wales to the General Register Office for Scotland, and to
disclose records of students living in Northern Ireland and attending
higher education institutions in England or Wales to the Northern
Ireland Statistics and Research
Agency.
The
information will be used by those organisations to improve population
and migration statistics in Scotland and Northern Ireland. Those will
then be provided to the ONS so that it can produce migration and
population estimates for the UK as a whole. I assure the Committee that
data confidentiality and security arrangements have been fully assessed
as a fundamental part of the preparation of the data sharing
arrangements in the organisations concerned. A privacy impact
assessment carried out by the ONS concluded that the proposed
disclosure of data is lawful and does not breach any statutory
provisions. That assessment has been approved by both funding councils
and by the Department for Business, Innovation and
Skills.
I
can also assure the Committee that the ONS and the Higher Education
Statistics Agency work to tight confidentiality guidelines and have
excellent data security records. They will put the necessary measures
in place to protect the data and avoid disclosure of any private
information about individual students. Information will be shared by
the ONS with Scotland and Northern Ireland, via its secure virtual
microdata
laboratory.
The
sharing of data under the regulations is supported by my right hon.
Friend the Minister for Higher Education and Intellectual Property and
Jane Hutt, Welsh Minister for Children, Education, Lifelong Learning
and Skills. They both gave their formal approval to the final proposal
before the draft regulations were laid. By supporting the regulations,
the Committee will allow data that are
already collected on students by the Higher Education Statistics Agency
to be shared with the ONS. Without the regulations, the ONS would be
unable to access that data. Providing the ONS with that access is
essential, to help it improve the accuracy of migration and population
statistics without having to perform a new and expensive data
collection. The improved statistics will better inform policy making
and funding allocation, and improve the quality of the next census. I
therefore ask the Committee to support the
regulations.
10.36
am
Mr.
Nick Hurd (Ruislip-Northwood) (Con): It is a pleasure to
serve under your chairmanship, Mr. Illsley. This is a first
for me, so I do not propose to test the qualities of fairness and good
humour to which the Minister referred. I shall keep my comments
brief.
Wecertainly
my hon. Friend the Member for Lichfield and Ihave been here
before, to discuss similar regulations that flow from section 47 of the
Statistics and Registration Service Act 2007. The fact that we have
been around this track before and have established some of the
principles for discussion does not mean that we should skip over the
main reason we are here, which is Government failure: the 2001 census
failed to measure the population accurately. That matters, as the
Treasury sub-committee counting the population made extremely clear.
Many local authorities do not recognise the population profile that
they have been presented with. My local authority of Hillingdon falls
into that category, not least because of the problems arising from
Heathrow airport. Therefore, the accuracy of the data matters because
money flows from them and resources are allocated as a result. It is
extremely important that the data are accurate; in 2001 they clearly
were not and problems have arisen from
that.
We
have no objection to the principle, and to the process under way to try
to ensure that the data are more accurate in future, but it would be
wrong to let the Committee pass without placing on record some of the
concerns that most of our constituentscertainly those in my
areahave about how the Government handle sensitive data. There
is a concern about increasingly big and intrusive government, a concern
that has been exacerbated by the cavalier incompetence with which
personal data have been handled by this Government. I will spare the
Ministers blushes by not reading out the various headlines,
such as Top-secret files on Al Qaeda and Iraqs security
forces left on commuter train and Personal details of
thousands of criminals lost. The list goes on, and the Minister
will be aware of it. There are considerable concerns out there and the
Minister paid lip service to them in her remarks. I would like to press
her for more detail on the Governments approach to improving
the security of personal data. I imagine that few students will be
aware of the regulations, but if they read them they would be concerned
about their personal data being shuttled around Government, and they
would have the same question as I do: Why is that absolutely
essential?
Michael
Fabricant: There is a sensitive area to the matter, as
well, in that the term-time accommodation postcode is one of the items
that would have to be submitted as part of the form. Often students
live in one large building, to which one postcode appliesin
other words, one can identify from the postcode precisely
where they live. If a large number of people of a particular ethnicity
lived in such a building they might in some circumstances,
unfortunately, feel threatened if they thought that that information
would get into the public
domain.
Mr.
Hurd: My hon. Friend raises an important point. There will
be sensitivities about such matters in this day and age. I ask the
Minister to be a little more forthcoming in explaining why the
provision is essentiala must-have rather than a
nice-to-haveand a little more explicit about the safeguards,
both for security of data and against the risk of mission creep, which
is all too
evident.
The
Minister discussed recovery measures, and talked vaguely about
something called a virtual data laboratory. That meant nothing to me
and I expect that it would mean little to any students who were
concerned about the issue. We shall not oppose the regulations, but I
press her to be more forthcoming in attending to the concerns that
people have about the way the Government handle data. She was silent on
that in her
speech.
10.40
am
Jenny
Willott: Like the hon. Member for Ruislip-Northwood, this
is the first time that I have served under your chairmanship,
Mr. Illsley, and I will not detain you too long today. I
have never seen such a large gathering interested in a set of
regulations. I did not realise that regulations on statistics were
quite so
popular.
We
welcome the provisions. As I mentioned in debating the previous set of
regulations under the Act, which related to schools census data,
accurate information is crucial. The issue of higher education students
affects my constituency seriously. We have five universities in Cardiff
and, as the hon. Gentleman said, accurate data are needed.
The last
census was not accurate in many areas, and Cardiff was one area in
which the number of people was seriously underestimated. That had
serious implications for funding for the local authority, and thus
affected local residents and taxpayers. It also affected students,
because, for example, there were not enough GP places. There are
serious implications for everyone living in an area where census data
are not accurate. I hope that the regulations will make a difference to
cities throughout the
country.
However,
I should like the Minister to clarify a couple of questions. The first
is about data security, which the hon. Gentleman just mentioned. How
will the data be shared? Will they be biked around or sent over the
internet? Some methods have in the past proved significantly more
secure than others. I accept that there have been fewer data
lossescertainly that we are aware ofin recent months
than there were about 12 months ago, but that will not necessarily
reassure those whose data are being shared.
Have any
issues been raised as a result of the schools census data regulations?
Has their implementation been reviewed or monitored to see how it has
been working? Have issues been raised, or have there been concerns,
about the security of the shared
data?
As
to the issue of sharing the students full name, why must that
be recorded and transferred, given that the student will already have a
unique identification number,
which is provided with the rest of the statistical data? That was raised
in the debate in the other place, but I confess I did not find the
answer particularly convincing: it was that a name is needed alongside
the identification number to ensure that the data are accurate and that
students are counted only once.
I find it
worrying that the Government are not sure that the ID numbers are
actually unique. If cross-checking is an issue, I do not understand why
the full name must be used. Surely something such as the postcode of
the home or term-time address would give enough accuracy to identify
the person as unique, and would give a measure of security that a
person could not readily be identified from the data being
shared.
Michael
Fabricant: I was listening to the hon. Ladys
argument with considerable interest. While I would sympathise with the
Government if they were saying that they wanted a belt-and-braces
approach, and having two factors would help in that, I agree with the
hon. Lady from the point of view that some people from abroad share
similar names, such as Patel, just as we have Smithboth are
common names. Using the postcode idea that she has suggested might be a
more accurate way of doing it, while at the same time, ensuring the
secrecy and security of the individual
concerned.
Jenny
Willott: As a Member for a Welsh constituency, I have a
significant number of constituents called Williams, Evans and Jones, so
there is an issue there. I should be grateful if the Minister would
answer my points, but I support the
regulations.
10.46
am
Mr.
Peter Bone (Wellingborough) (Con): It is a pleasure to
serve under your chairmanship again, Mr. Illsley.
I have a couple of quick questions for the Minister simply
for accuracy. When will the regulations come into force, and what steps
have been taken for the Joint Committee on Statutory Instruments to
consider
them?
Big
government is certainly a concern to Conservative Members. The
Governments record on releasing private information into the
public domain has been lamentable. It seems to meI recall some
work on this issuethat statistical sampling is more effective
than just trying to have everyones information because of
duplications and things going wrong. The information required is
detailed: we talked about ethnic groups, but now details are sought on
the mode of study and the sort of room people live in. All that
information can be gathered much more efficiently and accurately by
statistical sampling. I wonder if the Government have considered that
rather than the
regulations.
10.47
am
Mr.
Robert Syms (Poole) (Con): We all know that there is
something called studification, where many students have an impact on
the housing and rental markets, which sometimes causes difficulties in
certain areas. Presumably, the information that goes to the ONS will be
available to local authorities, housing authorities and other providers
of housing, because some fairly relevant information will be
collected.
10.48
am
Angela
E. Smith: I will do my best to do justice to the comments
that have been helpfully raised. I can tell the hon. Member for
Cardiff, Central that since the previous regulations no issues have
been raised on the sharing of information regarding school
pupils.
First,
it might be helpful if I emphasise to Committee Membersthere
may be some confusion on the part of the hon. Members for Lichfield and
for Wellingboroughthat the regulations are not about collecting
new information, but about the sharing of information with the Office
for National Statistics. That should address some of the concerns, but
I will deal with this in more detail. The comment that I was paying lip
service to security was an outrageous slur. The reputations of the
organisations concerned and the procedures that are being put in place,
which I will come to, should reassure hon. Members today.
The hon.
Member for Ruislip-Northwood perhaps saw the opportunity for a little
bit of sport when he talked about the failure of the census and issues
around statistics. The census has been going on since 1801. In that
time, we have learnt that things have changed. The population moves
much more quickly and we are much more mobile around the country than
we were in 1801. In addressing the concerns that have rightly been
raised, it is helpful to have additional studies and share information
between organisations. I find it difficult to accept some of the
criticism when the regulations address some of the concerns that have
been quite rightly raised.
On the issue
of data being lost or at risk in any way, we can assure hon. Members
present that the Government take the issue extremely seriously. We are
transparent if information is lost or mislaid, but the idea that, in
the words of the hon. Member for Ruislip-Northwood, information is
shuttling around Government does a disservice both to the Government
and to the public and creates unnecessary alarm. The points raised by
others, including the Treasury Committee and local
authoritiesthe hon. Gentleman has stated that local authorities
do not have accurate informationare what make these regulations
a must-have and not a
nice-to-have.
The
hon. Gentlemans point about mission creep is unjustified. If he
looks at the legislation, he will see that there is no possibility of
mission creep. The legislation and the explanatory notes clearly state
exactly what information will be shared and how it will be
used.
The
hon. Member for Wellingborough asked when the regulations will come
into force. That will happen as soon as the Committee agrees upon them
todayit has indicated that it willand Ministers sign
them; in other words, they will come into force
immediately.
The
hon. Member for Cardiff, Central asked how the 2011 census would be
improved. The census will be discussed in the House at a later date,
but I will suggest three sets of improvements, namely coverage access,
adjustment in the validation of information and a better basis for
estimating local moves, which is what the regulations under discussion
also address, to improve the methods of population
estimates.
It
is essential to have information on students because they are among the
most mobile sectors of the population and there are problems with
enumerating young people, which was one of the problems identified in
the 2001 census to which the hon. Lady has referred. Better
information
on students is vital and the existing source is inadequate in providing
details about international and internal migration. The regulations
will help provide that
information.
The
hon. Member for Ruislip-Northwood asked about safeguarding the transfer
of data. It is important to understand that the data under discussion
are not being passed from organisation to organisation; it is a new
system. He also asked about the laboratory that I mentioned, which I am
happy to discuss in detail. The ONS will be able to use a special
identifying number to download an encrypted file on one occasion only,
so it will not be available to anyone else. In order to download that
file a second time, a further identification number will be required.
It will not therefore be possible to print the information or transfer
it to another computer, but it will be accessible to the ONS, which is
undertaking the requirements of the Communications Electronic Security
Group, which is the information assurance arm of GCHQ. The hon.
Gentleman nods, so I understand that he is assured and fully conversant
with the virtual microdata
laboratory.
Michael
Fabricant: I understand what the Minister is saying about
encryption and the once-only code to access the data, and I also
understand the regulations that are in place, but is there anything to
prevent someone
from downloading data on to a mass storage device such as a CD-ROM or a
memory stick?
Angela
E. Smith: The procedures are in place for that. If anybody
misuses the data or tries to access them, they are quite rightly
subject to prosecution, which is a significant threat to anybody who
wants to bypass or abuse the system. I hope that I have addressed the
general concerns that have been
raised.
Jenny
Willott: I should be grateful for a response to my
question about the use of full names and whether other information
could be used
instead.
Angela
E. Smith: The issue has been looked at, and it was decided
that the use of full names is a double-check on information. As someone
who shares a name with another MP, a full name is sometimes not quite
enough, as the other Angela Smith in the House, my hon. Friend the
Member for Sheffield, Hillsborough, will confirm. The full name is the
double check to ensure that the information is totally
accurate.
Question
put and agreed to.
10.54
am
Committee
rose.