MR DEREK FEELEY, MR GEOFF HUGGINS, DR NADINE HARRISON

11 OCTOBER 2007

  Q300  Mr Jones: Wait a minute. You have got the campaign now being run by the British Legion and you have got newspaper headlines about the treatment of veterans, has that not even touched the Scottish newspapers or Scottish political scene at all?

  Mr Feeley: I suspect your Scottish colleagues are better placed to answer that question than I am. They will get a different kind of postbag from mine.

  Mr Jones: They might be, but—

  Q301  Chairman: There is a bit of a sense here of your issuing guidelines and seeing this ship sailing off into the mist and you saying, "Job well done" without contacting the home port to find out if it has come in or not.

  Mr Feeley: The Partnership Board would pick up a lot of these kinds of things. There will also be interaction between the facilities and the local health boards. I am certainly aware of a good deal of regular and very positive discussion between Redford Barracks and NHS Lothian, for example, about the day-to-day issues around service delivery. That is the kind of level at which that would be done.

  Q302  Robert Key: Could I ask if you have heard about the Help for Heroes campaign.

  Mr Feeley: Yes, I am aware of it.

  Q303  Robert Key: Good. I wonder if you could help me and tell me whether the new arrangement reached last Thursday with Combat Stress has covered a particular problem we were told about when we visited Leatherhead, and that is a lot of veterans do not present with mental health needs until an average of 14 years after they have left the Services and, therefore, they are not in receipt of a war pension and that presents an enormous funding problem for Combat Stress. Was that one of the issues that was addressed?

  Mr Huggins: As I understand it, the figures that I have had from Combat Stress indicate that the majority of people come forward at about 12-13 years and they are eligible to receive war pensions. The difficulty is in establishing a case and establishing the linkage between the problem and the health problem, whether it is mental health or other problems. From what I have seen, the majority of the people who Combat Stress are offering help to have appeared significant periods of time after their time in Service. There is no barrier there.

  Q304  Robert Key: There is a barrier because it is the difficulty in awarding the war pension, which is the funding mechanism. So nothing has changed in that respect as a result of last Thursday's announcement?

  Mr Huggins: They have not changed the regulations.

  Robert Key: I am sorry to hear that.

  Chairman: We may well come back to this again. We will move on now to the issue of healthcare of Service families.

  Mr Hamilton: Before I get on to that, would it be possible for you to inform the Committee by a note about the number of people who are in prisons, in answer to Brian's question, who have a history of being in the Armed Forces because you indicated that information is gathered. Could you get that information and send it on to us and any other information that you think might be relevant because if certain matters are devolved to Scotland, as we are taking an evidence session in the UK, it is important the Scottish dimension is put into that. I know you have already given us some information but some of the factual information about the Prison Service and the point that Brian raised, which I think is very relevant, I would like to see that coming forward.

  Q305  Chairman: Are you clear of what you have been asked and will you be able to provide such a note?

  Mr Huggins: I am clear of what has been asked. I did give information on our assessment of the mental health needs of those in prison. I do not know that we have a figure for those people who have had military service within the prison system but I can certainly make inquiries.

  Q306  Mr Hamilton: You do not have a breakdown?

  Mr Huggins: Pardon?

  Q307  Mr Hamilton: You do not have a breakdown?

  Mr Huggins: I personally do not but I can certainly answer the question. Corporate Scottish Government will provide that information if we have it.

  Q308  Mr Hamilton: One problem raised during the course of the inquiry relates to Service personnel returning home from overseas postings and finding it extremely difficult to register with National Health Service GPs and dentists. What procedures do you have in place to help Service families coming back to Scotland from overseas?

  Dr Harrison: Any family coming into a community has an entitlement to register with a general practice in their area, so there is no difference there. I suppose it is the local intelligence of knowing where to go, if you like, when they arrive back. There should be no barrier to families registering with a local GP's practice. We do not have problems like full lists in Scotland but I think there are some problems in some parts of England with that.

  Q309  Mr Hamilton: And dentists?

  Dr Harrison: Some areas have more difficulties in providing NHS dental treatment and dentists for people to register with. There is an obligation on the health boards to provide a general medical practitioner for every citizen whereas there is not for an NHS dentist. I have no knowledge of whether Service families have particular difficulties over and above the rest of the population.

  Q310  Mr Hamilton: So, effectively, as a family or an individual they have to fend for themselves in whichever area they go to, they have to find out for themselves?

  Dr Harrison: In dental terms that is more of a fending process. For general medical practitioners they can approach the health board and they will tell them who their local GP is and to go along to register.

  Q311  Mr Hamilton: Could the MoD do more to make the transition easier?

  Dr Harrison: I suppose they could give them an information pack, and I suspect they might well already do so.

  Q312  Mr Hamilton: I am thinking more along the lines that it is not just about the health services coming out, the MoD could help insofar as contacting local authorities about housing needs, for example. There is already a welfare officer who deals with personnel who are leaving the Armed Forces and they try to assist them. What I am trying to get to is if they are going to Lothian, Glasgow, Aberdeen, is there something rather than just a pack? Is there something where they can sit down and somebody will talk to them and say, "These are all the things you need to do", which includes dental treatment, who you sign up to, what village or town you are going to, where the local GP is going to be in that area, and, indeed, if they can get on to the housing list?

  Mr Feeley: I think these are really matters for the MoD, but if the MoD wanted to develop those kinds of arrangements we would certainly be very happy to—

  Q313  Mr Hamilton: They are not matters for the MoD if they are Scots coming back into Scotland and they are all issues which are being dealt with by a devolved government. At the end of the day these are matters that must affect individuals coming in. To put it across just to the MoD is absolutely outrageous.

  Mr Feeley: I am trying to explain. I assume that you would want—

  Q314  Mr Hamilton: It sounds like there is a price tag at the end of it.

  Mr Feeley: No. There is lots of information that is available and it would not be a huge, onerous task. I assume you would want that material available to Service personnel before they are discharged.

  Q315  Mr Hamilton: Yes, of course.

  Mr Feeley: Which is why I was trying to get over the message that I think principally, in terms of leading this work, the MoD would have to take a role.

  Mr Hamilton: Chairman, could I suggest at the next meeting of the three or four meetings they have a year that is one of the issues they raise for them to deal with it through a welfare officer and it is something they should tell the families coming out.

  Q316  Chairman: I am concerned about this meeting that happens three or four times a year. Again, it is a bit like the ship sailing off into the mist. I have this impression that these three or four meetings a year that happen are considered to be the contact that you need to have with the Ministry of Defence and the notion of these veterans being heroes who fought for their country does not really stray outside the Ministry of Defence and it is the Ministry of Defence that is there to deal with these problems. If they have got education problems, health problems, that is the Ministry of Defence's problem. This is the impression that I think this Committee is getting from the evidence you are giving us today.

  Mr Feeley: I am not sure how you are getting that impression.

  Q317  Mr Jones: You are doing a good job at it.

  Mr Feeley: As I have said, we believe that the healthcare services that personnel, their families and ex-Servicemen get in Scotland are extremely good.

  Q318  Chairman: But no better than anybody else is getting? No recognition of some of the special needs that they may have from all we can hear.

  Mr Feeley: Priority treatment for veterans for their condition. Priority treatment through the MDHUs if it is required.

  Chairman: Those are English.

  Mr Jones: We are paying for that. To be honest, I am very glad we have come here today to come to this session because I think it reinforces something which came out of our inquiry into education for children in Armed Forces' families, which is this complete disconnect between devolved administrations and the MoD. Mr Feeley, you sit there and say you have got policies but you have got no policies for dealing with veterans, you have told us. As I understand it, to be fair to Mr Huggins, you are going to look at mental health services because it has been upped on the agenda in terms of Combat Stress and you have amazingly said to one of your local Members of Parliament that basically Service families in his constituency have got no special treatment, you have got no priority on this, and all you are doing, as the Chairman says, is sending up paper to say, "This is what the policy is". Go to Mr Keys' constituency and I am sure his local health authority has got a completely different attitude from that, and they have in mine as well and mine has not got huge Service families. If I was a Service family or a member of the Armed Forces from Scotland listening to you three I would be pretty appalled and depressed, frankly.

  Chairman: I would feel that I was not high up the agenda.

  Q319  Robert Key: Could I just ask Dr Harrison to clarify something about dentists. I think you told us that a Service family, perhaps coming back from Germany, would have to find out where their local NHS dentist was and there is no particular help available to anybody, is that right?

  Dr Harrison: The local health board will have information on where NHS dentists and where general medical practitioners would be.