LORD JONES OF BIRMINGHAM AND MR ANDREW CAHN

16 JULY 2007

  Q20  Chairman: A number of colleagues have recollections of speeches like this, from both the Liberal Democrat and Conservative parties.

  Lord Jones of Birmingham: How I have voted in all elections since I was 18 years old is actually a matter for me and no-one else but I think all of you here would be absolutely surprised how I voted, but I would suggest that remains what I always thought was democracy in this country, which is secret.

  Q21  Mr Hoyle: Just to take you on about that, because I think it is important, quite rightly, you recognize that the peerage has been given by a Labour Government. We share a lot in common. I am a member of the same Government. I believe in British trade and industry and doing the best for the UK. Absolutely spot on. I am not a great UK EU enthusiast and so we have a lot of common actually. I just wonder; if it does end in tears, and that is what people are predicting—

  Lord Jones of Birmingham: What, the UK ends in tears?

  Q22  Mr Hoyle: No, not the UK; yourself and this Labour Government. That is what people are predicting. I do not think it will because I think you have your views, your opinions and you can work with the Government, but what happens if it does? Will you resign your peerage, as it has been given by a Labour Government? If you are no longer a member of a Labour Government, will you resign?

  Lord Jones of Birmingham: Certainly not.

  Q23  Mr Hoyle: So this could be just a job of convenience.

  Lord Jones of Birmingham: Actually, to go back to the first question and the first answer, just explain to me who made this offer to me. I did not ask for this. I did not apply. I did not even say I needed to be a peer to do it. I suggest you address that to your Prime Minister, not me.

  Q24  Mr Hoyle: My Prime Minister, not your Prime Minister? Is this the first chink in the armour?

  Lord Jones of Birmingham: I suggest you address this to the country's Prime Minister, not me.

  Q25  Mr Hoyle: Okay. Our Government, our Prime Minister, you are part of that Government under that Prime Minister. Can I ask you another question? I think it is important. I do not know what kind of car you have been given but do you think it would be good for ministers of this Government to ride around in British-built cars? I think that would send a very clear message.

  Lord Jones of Birmingham: I do ride round in a British-built car.

  Q26  Mr Hoyle: No, that is not the question. I will try again. Do you agree with me that it would be good for ministers of our Government to ride round in British-built cars? When I put a question down, you will find the biggest percentage of ministerial cars are not built in the UK, and that sends a wrong message. Do you agree with me?

  Lord Jones of Birmingham: I do you ride round in a British-built car and, by the way, it is a hybrid too.

  Q27  Mr Hoyle: Which one?

  Lord Jones of Birmingham: Honda Civic, built in Swindon.

  Q28  Mr Hoyle: Absolutely marvellous, but can you answer the question about ministers?

  Lord Jones of Birmingham: I am just telling you, I do ride round in a British-built car.

  Mr Hoyle: I will try again. I will say it slowly for you just to help you.

  Q29  Chairman: Minister, you have to understand that politicians are not used to other politicians deliberately not answering questions. It is rather refreshing.

  Lord Jones of Birmingham: Kettle and pot.

  Q30  Mr Hoyle: Just to help you, I will say it slowly. Do you agree with me that government ministers, our Government, should ride round in British-built cars? Not what you do, not what I do, but what your colleagues do. Does that help?

  Lord Jones of Birmingham: It is very helpful. Thank you. My answer is I do ride round in a British-built car.

  Q31  Mr Hoyle: I can see that you are going to be very constructive. I can see you will be a major improvement on what we have seen before if you cannot answer a straightforward question. I believe in British-built car manufacturing, I believe this Government should back UK car manufacturing, and I am sorry that you cannot come out and agree with me that all ministers, not just you, should ride round in a British-built car.

  Lord Jones of Birmingham: Can I ask you a question? Do you know where I was born?

  Q32  Mr Hoyle: No, you cannot actually. You have to learn also that you cannot ask questions.

  Lord Jones of Birmingham: Do you know where I was born?

  Q33  Mr Hoyle: Leicestershire? Birmingham? Yorkshire?

  Lord Jones of Birmingham: No, Longbridge. What do they do in Longbridge? They still do but they did even more years ago.

  Q34  Mr Hoyle: They are about to start doing it again. Absolutely.

  Lord Jones of Birmingham: Do know what I did as one of my jobs until two Fridays ago? I advised Jaguar and Land Rover. Where do they make their cars? Britain. Do you know what I used to do as one of my jobs? Go round the world banging the drum so that people would build cars in this country, and I do not mind if it is Nissan or Toyota or Honda or Volkswagen or BMW or Vauxhall at Ellesmere Port or anybody else, and I drive around in a British built car.

  Mr Hoyle: Absolutely, and I think we can both agree on that. All I am saying is let us get the government ministers also. Can I take you on to a question that is very important?

  Q35  Chairman: Can we do that later? You are, as I see, in the House of Lords answerable for all DTI questions—sorry, Department for Business, Enterprise and Regulatory Reform—all such issues. I see your maiden speech was on energy policy, Government energy policy. A fairly good speech it was too. So this means you are fully bound by collective responsibility and the code of ministerial conduct. This means that you will have to answer for all issues affecting competitiveness, on which you have expressed views in the past. That is right, is it not?

  Lord Jones of Birmingham: Yes.

  Q36  Chairman: For example, Harold Wilson once said a week in politics is a long time. Eleven months from appointment on 24th July you said of the extradition arrangements with the United States of America, the one-sided extradition arrangements, "It is going to take a long, long time for the business community to forgive the Government for this." So for Digby Jones 11 months is a long, long time in politics.

  Lord Jones of Birmingham: My job is to get round the world and sell this nation in its trade and its investment, and I am going to be focused on that. Other decisions taken in other parts of government, I accept Government responsibility and Cabinet responsibility, and that is the end of it.

  Q37  Chairman: So you now support the Government's extradition arrangement with the United States of America?

  Lord Jones of Birmingham: My job is to bang the drum for trade and investment around the world and that is what I am going to focus on.

  Q38  Chairman: It is true, but your job will involve in the House of Lords answering for the whole gambit of policies that your Department is responsible for, including something Mr Hoyle is about to ask you about.

  Lord Jones of Birmingham: What I would say is that part of my job, as I told you just now, is to act as the ears and the eyes in the business community and it is absolutely right that one of the areas that really does exercise the business community hugely at the moment is the extradition relationship with the United States. So one of the things I will be doing in private is relaying that disquiet into government. That is part of the job, but my job is to focus on trade and investment.

  Q39  Chairman: So you still have the concerns about the extradition arrangements you expressed 11 months ago?

  Lord Jones of Birmingham: My job is to exercise everything I can—energy, time, effort, the whole thing that this country can do—to get more jobs and to get more wealth into this nation. Actually, it is something I thought you would all share, you know.