WEDNESDAY 28 FEBRUARY 2007

MR PAUL SILVERWOOD, MR NEIL GREIG, MR ANDREW HOWARD AND MR EDMUND KING

  Q140  Clive Efford: Examples?

  Mr Silverwood: We have recently done a survey, and we have not yet published the results because we are still compiling them, but one interesting point is that the overall conviction rate of our members is 7½% as opposed to the general public, which is 14%. Those tend to occur in the first few years of driving. Taking all of the years that our sample had on the road they are actually only getting a conviction once every 45 years.

  Q141  Clive Efford: What about schools? Do you think that you are setting an example that could be adopted in other areas, such as education services that could adopt a similar approach and encourage more awareness of road safety?

  Mr Silverwood: Yes, definitely. We have produced a paper called the Pathfinder Project whereby we think we could take the methodology that we use at the Car Club and, using a sample of 50 youngsters as a pilot in the summer holidays, promote that correct attitude to driving. It is not just technical skill. There is no reason why if that is not successful, and we are hoping it will be launched this coming summer, that cannot be rolled out nationally.

  Q142  Clive Efford: Do you think it should be part of the National Curriculum?

  Mr Silverwood: Yes, to an extent. The shock tactics of some of the videos and the Drive Safe campaigns are very effective but they have a limited amount of effect and, in my view, that will diminish in time. Therefore, whatever you do in the classroom needs to be backed up with practical issues. It is all very well telling people but they need to experience it, they need to do it for themselves and take responsibility for themselves and the way they drive for themselves and everybody else in the car.

  Q143  Mrs Ellman: Pass Plus does not seem to have any significant impact on reducing accident rates. Have you got any other ideas of what might be better?

  Mr Silverwood: Yes. I think what is interesting is that 14% of youngsters take Pass Plus having passed their test but with our club members it goes up to 34% who will take the Pass Plus. They perceive a benefit in the wide range of experience that covers but there is no test at the end of it. It is no test of attitude, it is a bit more driving experience which, although we would say is good, does not necessarily produce the desired effect unless there is something to be gained at the end of it.

  Q144  Mrs Ellman: So what would you do? You would want to see a test, would you?

  Mr Silverwood: I would like to see a test. I would like to see it extended in terms of what it covers. I would like to see something like skidpan training included in it. There is a risk that drivers could think they are invincible because they can control a car in any situation so, again, you need to change the attitude around that because too many drivers, myself included, because unfortunately the Car Club was not around when I was learning to drive, have learned how to control a car when it slides through experience and that is not always the best way.

  Q145  Mrs Ellman: Does anybody else have any suggestions?

  Mr King: Could I just add something on Pass Plus. One of the proposals we have looked at is whether Pass Plus could become part of the test rather than now taking it on a voluntary basis afterwards. When you look at the research of attitudes of young drivers, and there was a paper the Department for Transport published, The Good, the Bad and the Talented, it is young drivers' perspectives. Many of them were saying after they had passed their test it was very frightening going out on a motorway for the first time or going out driving at night for the first time because none of that was included in their learning process. One of the ideas we have considered is whether you could have Pass Plus perhaps as a second part of the test so you do your main test and then do a Pass Plus test, perhaps changing the law that would allow those drivers to drive on the motorway under supervision in order to do that part of the test. I think it could well be more beneficial there if it is part of that learning process rather than an optional thing afterwards.

  Q146  Mrs Ellman: What about the idea of reducing the alcohol limit for novice drivers? Does anybody think that would be a good idea?

  Mr Howard: Like so many of these things the question lies in the practicality. Secondly, in a road safety world that is incredibly concerned about the signals that we give, what signal are we giving by telling young drivers that they have reached an age at which we are raising the amount that they can drink and drive. There are dangers there as well as there being pluses in trying to make the most vulnerable drivers sober when their driving.

  Q147  Mrs Ellman: Any other views on that? No. What about the suggestion of having passenger restrictions for novice drivers?

  Mr Howard: There is a huge visible connection between people carrying passengers, particularly carrying passengers late at night, and having accidents. That is why some people call for graduated licensing provisions which ban this and why we call for the idea that carrying passengers at certain times should be something which aggravates an offence when you commit one. It is certainly a measure which needs the strongest consideration.

  Mr Silverwood: Can I just come in there. Although I can see that by restricting the number of passengers if there is an accident less people get killed or severely injured, if the driver has the appropriate attitude at the outset then it does not matter how many passengers they carry. If we can change attitudes we do not need to bring in restrictions like that.

  Q148  Chairman: That sounds fine but it is not just that they are young drivers and they have other people in the car, frequently it is the fact that they are inexperienced, is it not? It is not just their attitude, it is whether they know how to handle the machine that they are in charge of.

  Mr Greig: Indeed.

  Q149  Chairman: Therefore, the things that Mrs Ellman is asking about must be relevant.

  Mr Silverwood: Yes.

  Q150  Chairman: For the sake of argument, were it just the fact that if you get somebody with attitude who thinks they can do what they like, they know how to drive, they can pack all their form in because there is no difficulty for them, it is not just going to be that aspect, is it, that is the killer factor?

  Mr Silverwood: No, it is if we can change the culture towards carrying passengers and driving generally. Some anecdotal stuff has come back from our survey of ex-members which says that they will not get into a car as a passenger if they feel the driver is going to be high risk.

  Q151  Mr Martlew: Obviously you are doing a tremendous job, and I wish you were operating in my neck of the woods, but do you take the average youngsters to learn to drive or is it self-selecting?

  Mr Silverwood: They come from all walks of life. We have got some very old very cars, very modern cars, fast cars and slow cars, a complete mix. We have got single parents, families, as diverse a catchment as you could have. The one thing that unites them is they really care about their kids and they recognise that probably the most devastating thing that is going to happen to their youngsters is being killed or seriously injured on the roads and if they can do something to prevent it they will put that effort in. I have got a lot of admiration for the parents of the members, they turn up virtually every weekend for nine months of the year and help their youngsters how to drive.

  Q152  Mr Martlew: From that, it is likely that their attitude will have spilled down to their children as well.

  Mr Silverwood: Yes.

  Q153  Mr Martlew: You are probably getting a selective group of youngsters, in fact, and you would expect that these youngsters would have fewer accidents.

  Mr Silverwood: You could argue that. I think I would turn that on its head and say if it were not for the club these youngsters could be at serious risk.

  Q154  Mr Martlew: If you want to come up to Cumbria I would be very happy for you to come. You can see what I am getting at?

  Mr Silverwood: Yes.

  Mr Greig: What the IAM are finding is getting one or two really keen youngsters involved is quite crucial and they can make a big impact. We are putting together a young driver network. Because normally the IAM membership is quite old, when we do get hold of a younger person and put them through advanced driver training they promote it themselves, they go out and talk to other young people. It is very difficult for a middle-aged IAM member to go out and talk to someone who cruises around in a souped-up car, for example, but it is a lot easier for someone who is 19 or 20 to do that. It is amazing the impact that one or two really keen people can make. Through advertising and preaching you are not going to reach the majority who are closing their ears to the message but if you actually send someone out there of their own age, driving a similar car—

  Q155  Chairman: Then again Mr Martlew's question actually applies, does it not? What we have established is that parents who bring their children to you or encourage their children to come to you, because as you say they have to commit quite a large period of time, are the ones who are already convinced. The ones you are talking about who are taking the cars and belting around the council estates are not exactly convinced of the need to behave in a responsible fashion or they would not be nicking the cars in the first place.

  Mr Greig: They can be reached if you choose the right medium. As Edmund suggested, whether it is using new media, things they use themselves, or sending someone of their own age there, you can actually reach them.

  Q156  Mrs Ellman: What about night driving? Should there be restrictions on it or discouragement?

  Mr Howard: I quoted earlier the 17 times average risk for the male driver in the early hours of the morning. The big thing we have to be able to disentangle is whether we are looking at people being unable to drive at night or whether we are looking at the effect of the drug, drink culture, whether we are looking at the effect of other people in the car exciting our young drivers to do things they really should not or making them feel as though they want to show off. We cannot just say it is because they do not have the experience of driving at night, it is all the other things that go into the mixture that is night driving for young people. Their figures are not as bad when you start looking at evening-style night driving as they are when you look at late night driving, again suggesting there are a lot of other factors afoot.

  Q157  Chairman: So you are not advocating a restriction seeing it as part of the problem?

  Mr Howard: I think there is a need for some sort of restriction on the dead of night driving, the early hours, the two to five o'clock, that sort of area, where such a high proportion of accidents happen especially given the low mileages that are travelled at that time.

  Mr Silverwood: I do not think that is necessarily the answer. The scheme that Norwich Union are proposing is self-funding in a way, the youngster has something fitted to their car whereby if they drive at night they pay extra money. It does not stop them from driving. Driving at night is quite different from driving during the day. Driving in driving rain at night is also very hazardous. If you suddenly deny them that experience then you are only saving up trouble for later on when they are a bit older.

  Q158  Chairman: I want to bring you on, if I may, to the standard of tuition. Is the standard of tuition provided by Approved Driving Instructors adequate?

  Mr Howard: I think it is very hard to say in terms of technical skills. I think the question really has to be—

  Q159  Chairman: Come on, Mr Howard, I do not want tact here, I want some honest answers. All four of you have been sitting in a row saying the problem with all the tests is they are the wrong tests, they do not test the right things, they need different types of skills that they need to know to assess the adequacy of the drivers. Now then, is the standard of tuition provided by Approved Driving Instructors adequate?

  Mr Howard: I would say that it is not because it does not tackle attitude, it is at the wrong time to tackle attitude, and most of the time it is concentrated on driving skills which I am not sure are that major a factor in the accidents that our young drivers have.