Mr George Galloway

30 November 2006

Q440  Sir Philip Mawer: No, I was not imputing that at all.

Mr Galloway: Then why mention it? They have it.

Q441  Sir Philip Mawer: That was the way they got it.

Mr Galloway: They have it; they did not ask me for them, they just took them as they had the power to do, which is why they took the power to describe us as a charity in the first place in order that they could get those documents. They have got them. They have got every cheque that was ever written and they have got every penny that ever came in. There is no doubt about how much money we raised, no doubt about how much money we spent and they have the cheques to prove to whom the money was paid. Their conclusion was that there was no evidence that any of the substantial sums of money raised were used improperly. That is their conclusion.

Q442  Sir Philip Mawer: Yes, but the evidence that was given to the Commission in the context of this inquiry by them was that the books and records had been transferred to Jordan in 2000 by Mr Halford and he says he knows nothing about that.

Mr Galloway: Who gave evidence to the Charity Commission?

Q443  Sir Philip Mawer: I believe that is in the letter[42] from your solicitors.

Mr Galloway: That Mr Halford transferred the books and the records?

Q444  Sir Philip Mawer: That they had been transferred at that time.

Mr Galloway: By Mr Halford?

Q445  Sir Philip Mawer: That is my understanding. Let me confirm that in a letter to you.

Mr Galloway: We will both have to look at that again.

Q446  Sir Philip Mawer: Let me say what I understand you to be saying. You are saying that any documents transferred to Jordan were transferred by you, not by Mr Halford?

Mr Galloway: Yes. Certainly it was under my orders. If he says he never transferred anything then I must have transferred them myself or another member of my staff must have done so. We did so in person. They were not sent by post and it was not a big event. You are investing importance in what you call "books and records" which did not exist at the time.

Q447  Sir Philip Mawer: I have got an understanding of what you understand the nature of the material to be. Mr Halford also says in his evidence to me that you ordered him to destroy the material that he had relating to the Appeal at the end of 2002. You say in your letter to me of 1 November[43] that you did not so order him. Are you saying Mr Halford is lying?

Mr Galloway: I said to you exactly what I said in the letter and that is what I am saying on that.

Q448  Sir Philip Mawer: Let me refresh my memory as to what you did say on the point: "I never at any time asked Mr Halford to destroy the Appeal's records. The implication is that these were financial. These records were not destroyed". Where are they then if they were not destroyed?

Mr Galloway: In the hands of the Charity Commission.

Q449  Sir Philip Mawer: They are actually in the hands of the banks, at least some financial records were.

Mr Galloway: No, all of the financial records, unless you have a basis for saying there are other financial records, "all" of the financial records are in the hands of the Charity Commission.

Q450  Sir Philip Mawer: Let me ask you this question then. Were books of receipts in and monies paid out ever kept by the Appeal?

Mr Galloway: They are in the bank statements.

Q451  Sir Philip Mawer: No, they are not in the bank statements. What is in the bank statements is the record the bank has of cheques paid in and out. I am asking you whether the organisation, of which you were the directing force, as you have acknowledged, throughout its life, ever kept books in any conventional sense which would have noted receipts in and monies paid out?

Mr Galloway: With respect, that is none of your business and it is none of anybody else's business. We were a political campaign. We were not subject to your rules, the rules of Parliament, the rules of the Charity Commission or the rules of the Companies Act because we were an independent political campaign in a free country operating against the policy of Her Majesty's Government. It was our responsibility to decide how we ran our organisation. I am content, and the Charity Commission was content, that none of the monies raised was used improperly. Unless you have got any evidence to the contrary, that is all I have got to say about it. What matters is that a proper record exists in the bank and with the Charity Commission of the income and expenditure of the campaign. That is what matters to me.

Q452  Sir Philip Mawer: The people who gave money might expect—

Mr Galloway: There are only three people who gave money. There are only three substantial donors and none of them, I assure you, is unhappy. It is not your job to be unhappy on their behalf.

Q453  Sir Philip Mawer: I think I will decide what my job is.

Mr Galloway: I have no doubt you will, and I have no doubt you will make whatever report you intend to make and you may well already have decided or decided long ago what report you intend to give. Please do not make the mistake of thinking that I seek your approval because I do not and I do not seek the approval of the politicians for whom you work. I am absolutely 100 per cent content and with a clear conscience about everything I did in this campaign. That is what matters to me. I can assure you the donors are perfectly happy with the use to which we put their money.

Q454  Ms Barry: Large donors and small donors?

Mr Galloway: I am not aware of a single complaint from a single donor but there were not many small donors, as I have already explained.

Q455  Sir Philip Mawer: If I can make this point in reply to what you have said. First of all, I have not reached any conclusion yet as to any report I will make because this meeting today is part of the process through which I am able to form any conclusions. Secondly, why this matters to me is in terms of the apparent contradiction between evidence which was given to the Charity Commission and evidence which has been given to me.

Mr Galloway: Show me it, show me the contradiction. It is pretty extraordinary that you are making that charge but you have not brought the paperwork to support it.

Q456  Sir Philip Mawer: I am sorry, the paperwork is available.

Mr Galloway: You are accusing me of a contradiction but you do not have the evidence in front of you to support your accusation. That is pretty extraordinary.

Mr McKay: What is the contradiction which you allege?

Q457  Sir Philip Mawer: The contradiction I am alleging is that the Charity Commission was told that the books and records of the Appeal had been transferred to Amman in 2000.

Mr Galloway: By Mr Halford was what you said.

Q458  Sir Philip Mawer: And Mr Halford denies that.

Mr Galloway: No, by Mr Halford was what you said, transferred by Mr Halford. You said that was my evidence to the Charity Commission.

Q459  Sir Philip Mawer: I will check the point and write to you on that.

Mr Galloway: I repeat, it is quite extraordinary that you should make such a charge without having the paper in front of you.

43   Volume II, WE 87. Back