Dr Burhan Mahmoud Al-Chalabi

20 April 2006

Mr Tom Healey, Clerk, and Mr Sabah Al-Mukhtar, Dr Al-Chalabi's lawyer, were also present.

Q1  Sir Philip Mawer: The focus of the questions that I want to put to you and the reason why I have asked to see you is that you have been named in reports published in the United States—reports produced by the Senate Permanent Sub-Committee on Investigations,[1] and also by the Independent Commission of Inquiry into the UN Oil-for-Food Programme[2]—you have been named as a recipient of an oil contract under the oil-for-food programme. The heart of the allegation that is made in those reports is that in receiving that contract, and the commission that went with that contract, you were essentially being used as a conduit to enable monies to go to Mr Galloway either directly or indirectly, or through the Mariam appeal to further his work. That is the focus of the questions that I want to put to you. It does not, I am sure, come as a surprise to you because I know you have read the Volcker (which is the UN Committee) report, and you have also read the Senate report. We have sent you exhibits attached to those reports which we believe to be relevant to the allegations made in those reports concerning you. I pause at that point because I want to give you the opportunity, and Mr Al-Mukhtar the opportunity, to say anything that you want to say about the terms on which we are about to have our conversation.

Dr Al-Chalabi: So far I am happy. I am grateful to you for that, thank you.

Q2  Sir Philip Mawer: I wonder if we could begin by you giving me your full name. This is just so that we can be clear for the record.

Dr Al-Chalabi: My name is Burhan Mahmoud Al-Chalabi.

Q3  Sir Philip Mawer: When was your date of birth?

Dr Al-Chalabi: 1 March 1947.

Q4  Sir Philip Mawer: And your nationality is?

Dr Al-Chalabi: I am now a British citizen. I have been so since 1996.

Q5  Sir Philip Mawer: Are you also an Iraqi citizen?

Dr Al-Chalabi: No, I am not.

Q6  Sir Philip Mawer: You do not have joint nationality?

Dr Al-Chalabi: No, I do not.

Q7  Sir Philip Mawer: Can I ask you about the nature of your business? I understand you have a number of business activities in which you are involved. I do not want those in detail but I in essence want to know what your occupation is.

Dr Al-Chalabi: Property developer.

Q8  Sir Philip Mawer: Do you have other business interests apart from property development?

Dr Al-Chalabi: No.

Q9  Sir Philip Mawer: Could I ask when you first met George Galloway?

Dr Al-Chalabi: I need to give a bit of background. I had a good idea of taking a flight, a mercy flight, from London to Baghdad. I worked quite a lot on it and came to the conclusion that it was too difficult for me. Then he appeared on the scene, on television, with the Red Bus. He took a bus round the Middle East, and I thought it would be a good idea to raise the profile of my mercy flight by asking for his help, so I called at the House of Commons and spoke to him. It must have been late 1999. There were some offices around here and I met him there and I explained my ideas and he was happy to—he said he would help.

Q10  Sir Philip Mawer: So were you the genesis then of the idea for the mercy flight which subsequently took place?

Dr Al-Chalabi: It did not take place. Subsequently it was cancelled.

Q11  Sir Philip Mawer: Right. It featured though in a deal of the publicity, I think, surrounding the Mariam appeal.

Dr Al-Chalabi: Yes. I asked for his help and he persuaded me that for him to be able to work it should be done in the Mariam appeal, but the entire idea was my idea. Basically the mercy flight, my idea, was to take children of expatriates, to take nurses, to take doctors, to Iraq in order to highlight the focus of attention on the damage and the suffering that had been caused to the Iraqi people by the sanctions regime of the United Nations.

Q12  Mr Healey: And this is the idea that subsequently became the bus tour?

Dr Al-Chalabi: No, no, nothing to do with that.

Q13  Mr Healey: This was a separate thing?

Dr Al-Chalabi: Nothing to do with the bus. I know nothing about the bus tour except what I saw on television and what I read in the paper.

Q14  Sir Philip Mawer: And there was no subsequent flight at all? My impression, I have to say, was that there was a flight which the Mariam appeal organised, but it may not have been the same as the one that you envisaged.

Dr Al-Chalabi: As far as my flight was concerned, my idea was to have a humanitarian mercy flight in order to focus attention on the humanitarian aspects of what is happening in Iraq.

Q15  Sir Philip Mawer: I understand that.

Dr Al-Chalabi: When he took over the administration of the humanitarian flight, somewhere along the line it changed from a humanitarian to a political flight. The British Government took exception to the people who were on the list. They were mainly journalists, and the British Government subsequently withdrew their support and the flight was cancelled because they felt this was not a humanitarian flight; it was a political flight, and I must admit I agree with them, and the whole project was cancelled and I was extremely disappointed.

Q16  Sir Philip Mawer: I think in one newspaper at the time—these allegations first appeared in The Guardian newspaper[3]—it was alleged that you had had a falling out with Mr Galloway over this flight. I do not know if that was a correct interpretation.

Dr Al-Chalabi: I mean, the only thing I had in common with Mr Galloway was the flight. When the flight was cancelled I was disappointed and we went our separate ways.

Mr Al-Mukhtar: Could I assist you by just drawing the overall map? There was the bus from London to Baghdad. That was nothing to do with the flight.

Q17  Sir Philip Mawer: Understood.

Mr Al-Mukhtar: Then there was the attempt for a flight which Dr Chalabi is talking about, which did not materialise. Then there was a flight, I think, from England through Germany or something to that effect to Iraq on which Mr Galloway did go, but the flight that Dr Chalabi is talking about is nothing to do with the bus and it has never materialised. The reason for the fall-out is that Dr Chalabi wanted to do a humanitarian one. Mr Galloway wanted to make it more of a public relations/political campaign. That is why the permission for the flight was withdrawn and that is the end of the story, so far as Dr Chalabi—his problem was because of this shifting of the emphasis from a humanitarian one to be at the end of the day political, they had this….

Q18  Sir Philip Mawer: I have understood that. If I could briefly play back what my understanding is, for you to confirm or otherwise, Dr Al-Chalabi's focus of concern was on the humanitarian impact of the UN sanctions on the Iraqi people. He wanted a flight which would assist in (a) identifying the impact of sanctions but (b) providing practical help and support.

Dr Al-Chalabi: And also I wanted to show the Iraqi people that it does not matter what the British Government are saying. The British people are caring and compassionate and unhappy about what is happening and they want to help. I wanted to try and bridge the gap of compassion, because wherever I heard the view of Iraqis—why is Britain doing this to us? You have got to go back to the background of this question. Britain used to graduate something like 6,000-8,000 Iraqis every year, so there was a lot of concern among the Iraqi people as to why Britain is doing this, and what I wanted to show is the difference between the British Government policy and the British people. The British people do care, are compassionate and they are as concerned as the Iraqis about what is happening to them.

Q19  Sir Philip Mawer: Can I move on in terms of your relationship with Mr Galloway? Can I simply ask were you ever in Iraq itself with Mr Galloway?

Dr Al-Chalabi: We first went, I think, late 1999 to introduce the idea to the Iraqi Government.

2   Report of the Independent Inquiry Committee (the Volcker Committee) into the UN Oil for Food Programme, published 25 October 2005. Back

3   For example, article published in the Guardian on 17 February 2004. Back