WEDNESDAY 11 JULY 2007

JIM KNIGHT MP, IAN PERSON MP AND RT HON MARGARET HODGE MBE MP

  Q100  Linda Gilroy: And girls?

  Jim Knight: —access to educational opportunities out of hours that we discuss and we think about. There was some mention in the Prime Minister's Mansion House speech a few weeks ago of that notion. I am not at the point of ruling anything out but certainly I cannot rule that in right now.

  Q101  Linda Gilroy: No, but it is something you would be willing to look at.

  Jim Knight: Certainly.

  Q102  Linda Gilroy: It is not a solution on its own.

  Margaret Hodge: There is a huge diversity of funding for these science centres. We had Renaissance in the Regions funding for regional museums and I think the museum in your constituency benefited from that. The Royal Cornwall Museum has a science centre; Enginuity, Shropshire; Manchester Museum—a number of these science centres received funding through that Renaissance in the Regions programme, which was very successful. I think a lot of the museum world has learned from the science and discovery centre movement, if you want to call it that. The interactive exhibits that engage children and young people, in particular, in the whole world of science is something that you increasingly now see in museums. That might create some difficulties for the commercial viability of the science centres, but, in terms of the overall government objective of opening up science to more and more people, it is a good thing.

  Q103  Chairman: Museum accreditation is based on the quality of the collection. The museum accreditation scheme is well established and really gives both customers and funders real security over the quality of what is happening. Do you think it would be a good idea to apply to science centres on the basis of, for instance, their educational offer?

  Margaret Hodge: There is nothing to stop a science centre, if it meets those quality thresholds and accreditation rules from applying. Every year the Museum, Libraries and Archives Council accredits new museums. It accredited Plymouth last year, I understand. It accredits them all over the place. There is nothing to stop them. The difference in conception between the traditional science—

  Q104  Chairman: They do not have a collection.

  Margaret Hodge: They do not have a collection. That has to be part of the accreditation process.

  Q105  Linda Gilroy: It is possible to have cooperation between the science centre, as in the Plymouth Marine Aquarium, and the museum, and for them to work with each other.

  Margaret Hodge: Quite.

  Linda Gilroy: I would conclude by saying the responses you have given suggest that hopefully what Ecsite will come out with is a toolbox from which different science centres will be able to pick appropriate recipes to become more viable in future because the funding stream is almost infinite.

  Q106  Chairman: I want to come back to you, Ian, because we are running out of time.

  Ian Pearson: That is perfectly possible as an outcome. I just wanted to add to some of the things Jim has said—because he has rightly focused on our children—when it comes to promoting science. Obviously we want not just to focus on children but families and a wider engagement strategy. You will be aware that research councils are currently in the process of setting up beacons for public engagement. My understanding is that some of those will certainly include science centres, probably on a contracted basis. We have had programmes such as Science Wise, Science Media Centre being set up. The Chancellor announced in the pre-Budget report back in December 2006, an expert centre on public dialogue on science and innovation, so there is work that has been going on in these areas. I think the issue for us is how we can most effectively coordinate it and vigorously promote it. That is something that I am very keen to pursue.

  Chairman: One last question from Brian Iddon.

  Q107  Dr Iddon: Chairman, in adding value to the school curriculum, science centres can be invaluable. Some have gained money from two features of the old DfES. One is the Innovation Unit and the other is Excellence in Cities money. I would like to ask Jim: do those two funding streams continue to exist in the new department?

  Jim Knight: The Innovation Unit has been liberated from the department and now floats free. It still receives a substantial amount of funding from DCSF but I think it has now won a contract with the Cabinet Office around engagement with the third sector, for example, so it is working with other departments, apart from just our own, using some fantastic skills and understanding they have around engagement. It might be an organisation that Ecsite should be talking to, given that expertise. As far as Excellence in Cities is concerned, that has largely become the City Challenge money, which we now spend in London, and, starting in April, in Manchester and the Black Country. But it is not a programme in which I have been directly involved. That is one on which Andrew Adonis has been working, although I am now taking on the Black Country Challenge. If I need to correct that, I will drop you a note.

  Chairman: Thank you very much indeed. On that note, could I thank our three ministers, Jim Murphy, Ian Pearson and Margaret Hodge very much indeed.