MR MATTHEW READER, MR JOHN SCOTT AND MS ALLISON HOLLOWAY

19 JULY 2006

  Q40  Dr Iddon: Let us turn to something specific, laboratory capacity and laboratories with the expertise. Do you feel there are enough of those?

  Mr Scott: As you know, the UK is one of only three countries with two WADA accredited laboratories, at Kings College, London and at Newmarket HFL. Accreditation is a very, very exhaustive and exhausting process as the individuals will tell you. They are constantly monitored to achieve the highest standards. I believe there are 30 laboratories in the world now and they are all expected to meet those WADA standards. I think in terms of the accreditation process, the supervision of those standards, WADA does a very good job. I believe here in the UK we are exceptionally well served, that we have a laboratory in Kings which is one of the oldest and has an exceptionally good reputation and history, and HFL which is an extremely modern laboratory with a lot of resources behind it thanks to its association with the horse racing fraternity which has added a new capacity. It is great for us here in the UK that we have access to that number of qualified personnel.

  Q41  Dr Iddon: My understanding is that the sample is split and half of it is sent by the organisations for testing and the other half of the sample is given to the athlete.

  Mr Scott: No. The athlete is responsible for putting the sample into what is called the A and B bottle, then witnessing the sealing of those bottles, signing the sealing of those bottles, and both bottles are then sent to the laboratory. The A bottle is the one that then goes through the whole sampling and testing process at the laboratory, and only if there is a positive finding is the B sample used. If it is a negative finding, the B sample is destroyed.

  Q42  Dr Iddon: It seems to me, as an outsider, that two laboratories is a very small number of laboratories to handle a large number of samples which would happen when the 2012 Olympics are here.

  Mr Scott: We will obviously gear up for that and there will be additional staffing resources brought in. What you find is at the time of the Olympics there is an international network of laboratories and you get an exchange of personnel. David Cowan, the professor at Kings, worked in Torino during the Torino Winter Olympics. In terms of qualified personnel, there is that international exchange. You only get those kind of pressures of a big multi-sport event infrequently, so you do not gear up a laboratory for that capacity year in year out. What you draw on is that international network.

  Q43  Dr Iddon: Why not accredit a third laboratory or even a fourth?

  Mr Scott: On an ongoing basis we do not need it. In terms of the number of the tests we do, and the number of tests undertaken in the system, there is enough capacity at Kings and HFL to do that.

  Q44  Dr Iddon: When you come across an HET, an enhancement technology, which is essentially a drug or chemical substance, how much effort do you put in detecting that if it is something new and difficult to detect, let us say EPO, Erythropoietin?

  Mr Scott: Obviously a huge amount of effort is put into that, and the history of EPO shows that with some really good intelligence and the provision of EPO to the lab it was very quickly able to put in place a system whereby it could be detected. I think the science that is in these labs is of the highest possible standard. More importantly, it is a science that is shared around the network of the 30 labs so there is this constant encouragement of improvement in the standards amongst the 30.

  Q45  Dr Iddon: Who supports the research into detection of the new substances?

  Mr Scott: WADA primarily. There are some national programmes. We ourselves have done some modest investment in the past, and we are going to be doing some research in the next year with both HFL and Kings looking at some of the tests that have been done historically, looking at some trends there. We will be doing that with our own labs.

  Q46  Dr Iddon: Could you explain the advantages of intelligent testing as distinct from random testing?

  Mr Scott: It goes back to my earlier comments. Last year there were about 180,000 tests undertaken globally in anti-doping. If you talk to WADA, they believe that maybe up to 50% of those were wasted and were not going to prove anything. They were not done in the right circumstances. They were not taking a sample when there was most likely to be doping, or it was in the wrong sports or the wrong disciplines of the sports. What intelligent testing is about is improving the targeting of the tests we have available to us. It is understanding a lot more about the lifestyle of the athlete and the kind of pressures they are under where that risk of thinking "If I dope now I may gain an advantage." It is also about understanding more about the benefits of certain drugs, their life in the body, when they are most efficacious so that you are then testing when that it is at its peak and most likely to find there is a real benefit. It is very complex but it is something we have to address and have to put in place if we are to get maximum effectiveness out of the tests we have available to us.

  Q47  Dr Turner: I imagine that when the 2012 Olympics arrives we will see the biggest drug testing programme ever undertaken in history. Will the extent and intensity of the programme be solely determined by what you think is in the best interests of eliminating cheating from the sport, or will it be limited by international laboratory capacity? Obviously, however good our laboratories are, they will not be able to take that workload on.

  Mr Scott: Answering the second point first about capacity, there is always the provision of a huge temporary capacity at something like the Olympic Games. It is very easy to bring in the sophisticated testing machinery. As I have explained, there are number of individuals who are qualified to use that machine internationally who would also be brought in. I do not think capacity will be a problem.

  Q48  Dr Turner: You have will have a tent full GC mass spectrometers.

  Mr Scott: Perhaps we will rent a big hall somewhere. It will either be at Kings or HFL or both, and there will be an enhancement to the number of mass spectrometers, or whatever they have that they need to undertake the necessary testing, and individuals will be brought in. In terms of testing numbers, there are two parts to that. Obviously there is the extent to which the UK wishes to increase its testing in the run up to the Games. We have historically now always undertaken a very targeted programme of any British athlete that is likely to be going to the Games. We have wanted to ensure that any person representing GB is as clean as we can guarantee. We have now done very effective pre-game testing programmes for the Commonwealth Games, Winter Olympics and Paralympics, Summer Olympics and paralympics and that would certainly be central to our preparation. As we are likely to have the biggest team ever in London, that would mean a large increase in the number of tests. Also, of course, a lot of athletes from abroad will be here in the United Kingdom in the run-up to the Games, acclimatizing, getting used to the venues, there are potential training camps here, and one of the things we will be in discussion with the Government about is the extent to which we, as the National Anti-Doping Organisation, will be testing those people as well. Australia did that in the run-up to Sydney. There was a fair amount of that in Athens in the run-up to the Athens Games, and we think that is something we need to look at. That will require additional capacity too, but that is part of the pre-Games planning that we are only now beginning to get our heads around.

  Q49  Dr Turner: Professor Waddington is quoted as saying that it seems strange and worrying that international elite athletes have an incidence of asthma several times that of the normal population. They, if they satisfy medical examination, are qualified for exemptions and are allowed to take certain drugs, including steroids, quite legitimately. Firstly, can I ask you how rigorous the medical assessment to qualify for the TUE is, and is it internationally consistent?

  Mr Scott: I will ask Allison to answer that because she manages our TUE process and it would be helpful if she could explain that to you. Certainly I am very happy to say that we obviously have some concerns about the international consistency of the application of TUEs. That is one of the things we have put to WADA as one of the issues they need to tighten up in terms of international compliance with the code.

  Ms Holloway: If I can reiterate as well, we do get a large number of TUEs in the UK and that is fairly consistent across the world, and in particular for us in medications and the use of gluco-cortico steroids as well. It is an ongoing concern for all National Anti-Doping Organisations and WADA. In terms of how rigorous the test is for the assessment of asthma applications, it is a little inconsistent. There are some international federations that require athletes to go through very rigorous respiratory lung function tests to assess their need for Beta-2 agonists. The problem with this in the UK, and therefore I expect the problem in many countries around the world, is there are only two places now in the UK where athletes can have this test done and very few experts that can conduct the test for athletes. That is a big problem we are facing at the moment. The international standards for therapeutic use exemptions, however, does not require athletes to provide any documented medical evidence for the use of asthma medication. It is something that, in our consultations to WADA, we have suggested that they need to look at, one way or the other, whether they downgrade it or they actually make it more effective in terms of monitoring it. All an athlete really needs to do is have a physician fill in an application, say that they have conducted an examination of sorts and maybe listened to the chest or a flow-loop examination, and then they submit the form and it is accepted on receipt of the application. We are very concerned about this and it is something that we have put forward as a recommendation to be reviewed.

  Q50  Dr Turner: This sounds like a massive opportunity for abuse. Do you have any evidence, either anecdotal or whatever, that athletes are deliberately abusing and evading the system in this way?

  Ms Holloway: It is difficult to know that. I think that is a possibility. With asthma it is difficult at the moment because there are differing views on whether or not it really is performance-enhancing for athletes that do not suffer from asthma or exercised-induced asthma. A lot of work in research is going into this to try to determine whether or not it is actually effective in enhancing performance. This is constantly being looked by the Science Committee and the Prohibited List Committee. I do not know whether it is being abused but you have recorded the figures there, so I guess: do we really think that many athletes in the UK and around the world have asthma? There is an increase in sports like swimming—

  Chairman: Sixty per cent of cyclists have asthma. That seems strange, does it not?

  Q51  Dr Turner: It must make you extremely suspicious, to say the least?

  Mr Scott: We are naturally suspicious, I am afraid.

  Ms Holloway: Yes, and it is something that we are looking at.

  Q52  Dr Turner: Gene therapy manipulation is not a practical proposition at the moment but are you aware of any sports scientists around the world tinkering with it and looking for opportunities?

  Mr Scott: There is speculation. I would have to put my hand up and say that I have seen no absolute evidence. What I have heard is a lot of rumour. I have heard that there is the prospect obviously of it being applied. I think some of the things that are being suggested are extremely scary, if they are true, and of course the one thing you must not be is complacent. It is extremely important that if anything is heard, it is properly investigated. Certainly I have not heard anything about which I would be in a position to say, "We need to do this". What I have heard and I am sure some of the stuff that you are hearing is that this is a real possibility. In what way is it a possibility? How is it going to be applied? Where does that transfer take place? Those are some of the questions that we are asking and we are having to continue to look at.

  Q53  Dr Turner: We are not immediately going to see a race of super athletes, hopefully?

  Mr Scott: I sincerely hope not.

  Q54  Dr Turner: There have been criticisms about the accuracy and adequacy of data provided by testing. Clearly one must accept the UK laboratories on this. Is the reliability of testing across the world consistent? Are there problems here?

  Mr Scott: I think the accreditation process and the standards that WADA is demanding of the laboratories is very high, and obviously they are continuing to try to ensure that those standards are maintained and, more importantly, are improved where there are weaknesses. I certainly believe that our laboratories have extremely good systems. Remember, HFL is one of the newer laboratories and so has gone through the new WADA process but that is even more rigorous than the previous one. Obviously they had to go through re-accreditation but just to get accreditation in the first place is a much more rigorous process than that. The fact that there is a much better network now between the laboratories where there is this exchange of knowledge, this exchange of expertises, is helping as well. It is a little family; there are 30 of them and it is extremely useful that they can meet regularly. WADA facilitates that; it gets the labs together regularly. They are obviously in daily contact with each other. That is what that industry is like.

  Q55  Dr Turner: Does this mean that whenever an athlete is tested in whatever country, his or her sample will be analysed to the same high standards and using the same techniques wherever they are?

  Mr Scott: That is absolutely right. Where we may have some concerns is more on the sample collection procedure where I think not always our high standards are met, certainly in terms of the information given to the athlete; for example, chaperoning sometimes is extremely inadequate. Those sorts of issues are not yet consistent. Similarly, we have made these points to WADA that this needs to be tightened up.

  Q56  Dr Turner: Are there ever any problems with storage of samples, samples getting degraded because they are badly stored?

  Mr Scott: Any sample that is badly degraded obviously has to be rejected. That is one of the criteria that the lab would apply. Any inadequate sample would not go through the process.

  Q57  Dr Iddon: Is there any mystery shopping done? Do you deliberately send to the laboratories samples that are contaminated?

  Mr Scott: That is what WADA does all the time. The labs never know when it is coming or who it is from. Yes.

  Q58  Dr Iddon: That is how the quality is maintained?

  Mr Scott: Absolutely.

  Q59  Dr Harris: How are we planning to learn from Beijing for London? I have a number of questions in this area, so you will have to be quick in your answers. Fire bullet points at me.

  Mr Scott: We are learning from all the games, not just Beijing. As you know, WADA undertakes an independent observer programme for all the games. Just recently, they put on their website, for example, the reports from Torino and Melbourne, so we will obviously be studying those. We will work with LOCOG in terms of the delivery of the anti-doping programme. There are two options there in terms of how it is finally delivered: either UK Sport could deliver it, or we could be the advisers for the delivery. They gear up accordingly.