WEDNESDAY 18 APRIL 2007

MALCOLM WICKS MP, AND DR DAVID WILLIAMS

  Q571  Chairman: Good morning to the Minister of State for Science and Innovation, Malcolm Wicks, and good morning to Dr David Williams, Director General for the British National Space Centre. Could I say that this is the last oral session of our inquiry into space policy. A lot of issues have been raised during the inquiry and we are hoping very much, Minister, that you will be able to throw light this morning on some of your thinking and indeed the Department's thinking in terms of future of space policy, and we are very grateful to you for coming along. You said when you launched the consultation on the UK Civil Space Strategy 2007 to 2010 that "space is the great adventure of the coming millennium", so what is your vision for the future of UK in space?

  Malcolm Wicks: What I meant by the great adventure is that there is something instinctive about the human species to explore and to go beyond accepted boundaries. I think that has been very much the history of our planet and it is not surprising that humankind is now interested in the recent period in exploring further, exploring into space. I think all of us have grown up with stories on the radio and the television and in books of space exploration and, as I say, I think there is something instinctive about that, so when I say it is the great adventure I think it will be the great adventure and I think we will see great strides during the rest of this century and further into the millennium. Coming down to earth a little bit more and having some regard to tedious things like spending implications, with my feet firmly on the ground, can I say that from the United Kingdom point of view we are very much there taking part in this great adventure, but this is not about the UK in a very nationalistic way thinking it should fly the flag or that we should have our own British mission to the Moon or Mars or whatever. We should play to our strengths and I think our strengths are considerable, as this Committee would have heard. They include some of the IT around space exploration, they include robotics, they include astronomy, they include satellite technology, and small satellites within that. Therefore what we have got to do is to make sure that we are involved internationally with the European Space Agency but also to some extent in collaboration with NASA to make sure that we can play our part in what you were quoting me called "the great adventure". I think it is a great adventure but I think scientifically it makes a great deal of sense, technologically it makes sense, and economically it makes sense because this is a small but growing part of our GDP. The worldwide space market is a huge one and if only (although this is not the only factor) for economic reasons, we need to be part of it.

  Q572  Chairman: You said that "space matters", that was your actual phrase and it was a very strong statement you made. I just wondered how important is this particular part of your portfolio? How much emphasis do you give to space policy and this whole emphasis on what space can deliver and the space industry can deliver as part of our growth in GDP?

  Malcolm Wicks: I would give a great deal of emphasis.

  Q573  Chairman: Do you spend a lot of time on it?

  Malcolm Wicks: I cannot say I spend huge proportions of my time on it but it is something that has intrigued me, as I think you know, and interested me from the start, not least because my first ministerial visit wearing my science and innovation hat was to the University of Surrey where I was intrigued as a newcomer to the field to see that not only in the University of Surrey but through Surrey Satellites, a spin-out company, they are interested in small satellites. Six months earlier I might have thought, "What does that mean, that they are writing learned articles for the international journal of who knows what about satellites?" but, no, they are actually developing them, they are building them and they are successfully having them launched into space. I think that made me realise something I had not in my ignorance realised before I took on this job, that this was an area where Britain was excellent and we were doing very, very well internationally. So I think I would give a great deal of emphasis to it. I want to see Britain as a major player in space, playing to our strengths and also, Chairman, if I can add, playing to what I think is the best objective scientific evidence at the moment that the things that we need to do over the next 20 years in terms of space exploration is not necessarily sending a British woman or man to the Moon but it is about exploration in terms of astronomy, robotics and the rest.

  Q574  Chairman: I do not think anyone would disagree that you have displayed a passion for this particular area of your portfolio and certainly I think this Committee would accept that but we have heard very different opinions about the state of health of the British space industry. I just wondered what is your assessment of the current state of health of the British space industry? Is it healthy and, if it is not, what are you doing about it?

  Malcolm Wicks: I think it is healthy but I do not think one should be complacent. I am looking forward to your Committee's report on this, but I think it is in a healthy state. I think our science in the areas that I have mentioned, and no doubt some other areas, is excellent. I think we are seeing a great deal of entrepreneurship and innovation by a number of companies, some of them quite small or medium sized, and I think in terms of our European collaboration with the European Space Agency, we are pursuing the right tactics in terms of picking quite carefully what projects we are backing.

  Q575  Chairman: Does it not need help from your Department? Is it perfectly capable of being able to work on its own?

  Malcolm Wicks: I am sure, Chairman, everyone needs help from the DTI.

  Q576  Chairman: We have not asked for any yet!

  Malcolm Wicks: I am here to help today in my modest and humble way, Chairman, as ever. Of course it needs help from government. I am just looking at the figures in front of me, which I am sure you have been supplied with, which if you look at the civil space expenditure which is co-ordinated through David's BNSC, it adds up in 2005-06 to over £207 million from different agencies. Obviously there is always room for discussion—is that enough? is it too much?—but it does show on the civil side (and then of course there is the military side) that there is quite considerable public investment going into space science and space technology.

  Q577  Chairman: In terms then of academia, you have mentioned on a number of occasions both here and elsewhere your admiration for our academic expertise within robotics and other areas. Do you feel that that is a healthy area as far as academia is concerned? Are we leading the world there and what are we doing to support our academics?

  Malcolm Wicks: Let us be careful about being too patriotic in terms of leading the world. I think in some areas of science we are leading the world, I think in some areas we might be second only to the United States, so I think the academic base is a strong one.

  Q578  Chairman: Where are our strengths then in terms of space science?

  Malcolm Wicks: May I turn to David as well to give his opinion because he has been in the field longer. What I am learning is that our strengths are in astronomy. We have always been very good at astronomy and I think that is important because in terms of scientific questions about space one should not, I am advised, and this seems sensible, be too ready to say that we will answer certain questions simply by space exploration, as it were sending a rocket up with clever gear on it. If we can tackle issues in other ways astronomically then that is very sensible, so I think it is important to take a holistic approach. I have mentioned satellites and I think our strengths are in satellites and I think also in terms of some of the IT that is associated with space technology we have strengths and I think you have mentioned robotics. May I ask Dr Williams to add something.

  Dr Williams: I think we have got a good range of strengths. Instrumentation is a particular area and our analysis of data is a very strong area and our ability to understand the science that is retrieved from the information and observations that are made, and we are also strong in the software field, I think that is an area of strength. That is in the science area. In the earth sciences again it is the instrumentation and the ability to model and assimilate the data where we are strong as a country.

  Malcolm Wicks: One idea, Chairman, which the Committee might have a view on, not necessarily today but might reflect on, is we have been thinking about how to stimulate interest in space science among post-graduate students in certain fields but mainly among under-graduates and one possibility here—I am not committing myself to it, we need to think it through very carefully and get advice, including from your Committee—would be to have a competition among universities for graduate and post-graduate students to design and build instrumentation for a small satellite with a view to the winning entry (judged on scientific criteria) being launched into space to do useful work within a couple of years of completion. I think such a competition could command some public interest. If we could link it to interest among some sixth-forms in those communities I think that might be an added bonus. It is an idea that we have been thinking through recently but we welcome advice on what is at the moment simply an idea. Perhaps we will come on to this, but that would help us make the link with another subject of interest to this Committee, and I have been struck by this when I have been going around schools, which is why is it that this instinctive interest amongst children (and most of us when we were children and as we try to grow up were interested in space and space exploration) has not translated into more of those children doing science and doing technology and engineering in their later education careers, and we need to think through how we bridge that gap.

  Chairman: We are actually going to return to that link with education a little later on and I am going to bring in my colleague Graham.

  Q579  Graham Stringer: Malcolm, when you were Energy Minister you said that ESA matters enormously to us. Why are the relationships with ESA so important and now you are Science Minister how often do you meet with them?

  Malcolm Wicks: I have got a trip planned to go and visit ESA. I have not been there yet since I was appointed in November. My colleagues are in very close touch of course with ESA but it is on my list of things, as it were, to do. I think it matters because while one can explore different dimensions of space investigation and exploration the role—and again we get back to satellite technology—of environmental monitoring, helping us to understand what is happening in our planet, helping us to understand better the phenomena we are all concerned about in terms of climate change, I think that is probably what I had in mind when I made that statement.