TUESDAY 1 MAY 2007

PROFESSOR SIR HOWARD DALTON, MR TREVOR GUYMER, DR PHILIP NEWTON AND DR MIKE WEBB

  Q80  Linda Gilroy: The Environment Research Funders' Forum has been doing a review of training requirements; what do you expect to emerge from that?

  Professor Sir Howard Dalton: Up to last week I had chaired the Environmental Research Funders' Forum. I have now stepped down from that. One of the things that we were very concerned about was ensuring that the right skills were being brought through the system in order to meet what we perceived, in some areas, as being skills shortages. We are about to commission that report; hopefully that will give us some indication as to where the future needs are going to be. We just have to wait for it to come out.

  Q81  Linda Gilroy: What is the timescale on that? Can we have a note, if you are not certain?

  Professor Sir Howard Dalton: Yes, I can do that. I am not sure exactly when it will be produced; it should not be too long[3].

  Dr Newton: The agreed forward work programme in ERFF, to look at this training issue, is very similar to what is in NERC's draft strategy on training, so NERC is going to play a prominent role in that. The only other area that we have not touched on is education in schools, which is an important part of this. It is not within the research councils' remit but, for example, some of the Oceans 2025 institutions have programmes they run with schools, through Science in Society, to try to raise awareness, and I think RCUK is looking at ways it can interact with the Department for Education and Skills, again to start thinking about how we influence things at the schools level.

  Q82  Linda Gilroy: Turning to the research vessels, again we have had some evidence expressing concerns about some of that. I am particularly interested to know what long-term plans NERC has to provide inshore research vessels?

  Dr Webb: In the longer term, we have a Capital Programme now for the replacement of The Discovery, which is a large, oceanic ship. Through the NERC's barter arrangements I talked about earlier, we have access to a portfolio of other facilities, which includes smaller ships, when the demand is there from the science community and where we have access to what you would call more coastal or continental shelf type ships, through those barter arrangements. The whole idea of the barter arrangements is that we do not need to own every type of facility, and if the French have got smaller ships then why not use those; it is not very far away. One other point to make; through the Joint Infrastructure Funding, NERC awarded the University of Bangor what you would call a coastal and continental shelf ship, called the Prince Madog, and that is available as a NERC `pay as you go' facility. As I understand it, that has availability year on year, so that would suggest, at the moment, that we are meeting the demand. I would suggest there is not strong evidence that NERC is not able to provide access to the ships which the science is demanding.

  Q83  Linda Gilroy: When people tell us that the UK research fleet has reduced in size, are you saying that is more than made up for, or made up for, by access to barter or other sources?

  Dr Webb: I think there is little doubt that the UK fleet has contracted over the last 20 years. I also think it is true to say that, through the barter arrangement, NERC is optimising the use of those facilities. If you look at the programme now, you will see very little evidence in the Cruise programme of large passages, because NERC is using all of the available time to programme in foreign cruises on its own ships. By doing that, I would suggest that you could say, arguably, if NERC was not involved in the barter arrangements we might need two and a half ships, or three ships, to do what we do currently with two. In terms of science demand, we are meeting all of the demand at the moment, but the demand is high and the pressure on marine planning is high then it may be that over time—

  Q84  Linda Gilroy: It will increase with the Marine Bill, assuming that goes through the House, and the marine management organisation?

  Dr Webb: Yes.

  Q85  Linda Gilroy: Is that an area we should be concerned about and we should be looking at, in terms of our recommendations in this report?

  Dr Webb: I find it hard to comment, to be honest. I believe there is capacity at the moment in the UK to charter what we would call more coastal ships. It may be that there is a need for some new resource but I do not know how strong the arguments are for that.

  Q86  Linda Gilroy: Is anybody looking at value for money across what is available, at the moment?

  Dr Webb: In terms of the NERC fleet, as part of the evidence base which NERC had to build to submit a case to OSI for capital funding for the replacement of The Discovery, we had to make a compelling case that we were using our existing facilities effectively and that there was the demand there to use them. I hope that answers your question.

  Q87  Linda Gilroy: Is that something to which we can have access, to see what the issues are around that?

  Dr Webb: Yes; certainly I can give you the case which NERC made for that facility.

  Q88  Chairman: On that note, we will bring this first session to an end. Can I thank you very much indeed, Mr Trevor Guymer, Dr Philip Newton and Dr Mike Webb, and, in particular, could we thank you, Professor Dalton, Howard, for not only this session but for all the help that you have given to this Committee. We understand that you are leaving Defra sometime in the future, so this may be your last appearance before us, and, very, very sincerely and genuinely, can I thank you for being always really a very obliging, very supportive and very informative witness, and we wish you well. Also, could I apologise to the witnesses for Members coming in and out. We do not meet normally on a Tuesday morning, we have rearranged this to meet some other diaries, and there are two other Committees occurring this morning, including the launch of the Mental Health Bill Committee Stage, which Members are on. It was not because they were disinterested in your replies, it was because there were other things going on, and members of the Science and Technology Committee are in huge demand, all over the House.

  Professor Sir Howard Dalton: We know that; we are delighted.

  Chairman: Thank you very much.