Westminster Hall

Thursday 23 March 2006

[Mr. Edward O'Hara in the Chair]

Young People and Democracy

Motion made, and Question proposed, That the sitting be now adjourned.—[Mr. Cawsey.]

2.30 pm

The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Constitutional Affairs (Bridget Prentice) : I am pleased to be opening today's debate. The Order Paper said that my right hon. and learned Friend the Minister of State, Department for Constitutional Affairs would be opening the debate, but obviously it has not caught up with the—

Mr. Edward O'Hara (in the Chair): Order. It was the bench note, not the Order Paper.

Bridget Prentice : I am sorry, Mr. O'Hara. The bench note said that my right hon. and learned Friend would open the debate. Obviously, we have not yet managed to spread far and wide the fact that we have changed portfolios in the Department. She now deals with justice issues, such as legal aid and family issues, while I deal with democracy issues, including electoral reform and the House of Lords.

The debate deals with the participation of young people in democracy—an issue that is incredibly important, as well as pertinent, for us all. Young people are an influential group in society because they are the future of our country and our democracy. It is therefore vital that we capture their ideas, energy and enthusiasm in respect of democratic issues. That means involving them as early as possible in discussions about what politics and democracy mean to them.

This week, the Government and other political parties have come under criticism over party funding. We are now legislating to make it compulsory for all political parties to disclose all the loans that they receive. We acknowledge that what is needed is a more transparent process, which is more in the spirit of fair democracy. A healthy representative democracy is the key to a healthy Government.

People of all ages and backgrounds should have the opportunity to debate issues that matter to them. Young people often have different views from other groups in society. It is therefore important to find a forum in which they can voice their views and those in power can listen to them. If we do not listen and respond appropriately now, there is a risk that young people will not connect with democracy now or in future.

The Electoral Commission's third audit of political engagement showed that young people have significantly lower levels of political knowledge than the rest of the population and a lower propensity to vote. The Department will be considering the report and its findings and will continue to explore the best ways to address those issues.

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What, then, do we mean by the participation of young people in democracy? We can measure participation by looking at how many young people turn out to vote in elections, and the figures are pretty stark. In the 2005 general election, only 37 per cent. of 18 to 24-year-olds voted, and the figure was only marginally better in 2001, at 39 per cent. That compares quite dramatically with 1997, when 68 per cent. of 18 to 24-year-olds voted.

We need to address the startling decline in engagement and seek ways of re-engaging young people in the political process. We need to find the reasons for that decline. There are big and growing inequalities in our democracy. Evidence suggests that the young, the poor and black and other ethnic minority groups are far less likely than older, wealthier, white people to be on the electoral register, so are unable to vote. Those who fall into more than one of those categories are obviously particularly likely to be excluded from our democratic process. That is a serious problem, which must be addressed because it could undermine the legitimacy of our democracy and pose a threat to social cohesion and social inclusion.

In it's report "Understanding electoral registration", the Electoral Commission has estimated that 16 per cent. of 18 to 24-year-olds are not on the electoral register, compared with just 2 per cent. of over-55s. It also found that 37 per cent. of black Africans are not registered to vote, compared with just 6 per cent. of white Britons. The evidence indicates that young people are disengaged and/or apathetic, but that is not a fair reflection. Young people are not disengaged and/or apathetic, and my experience as a constituency MP shows that when an issue matters to them, those who have the opportunity to make a difference get involved and want their voices heard.

In my own borough, the local authority has been doing fantastic, innovative work with young people to engage them in the democratic process. Ours is the only borough that is doing that, and once I have told hon. Members about some of the things that are going on, I hope that they will take them back to their areas and persuade their local authorities to do something similar.

Last October, for example, Lewisham saw the election of its second young mayor. The election is a way for young people in the borough to have a real say in its future and to make a real difference. Unfortunately, the young mayor could not be in Parliament today, because he also has to attend school from time to time. We had 33 candidates at the election, which is a healthy indication of our young people's democratic engagement and their healthy appetite for involvement. Polling stations were set up in every school in the borough to allow students to elect their second young mayor. Throughout the day, 11 to 17-year-olds were offered registration forms to complete and return. Wilf Petherbridge from Forest Hill school won the election and was declared the young mayor after a hard-fought campaign. He will be in office for a year and has been given a budget of £25,000 to spend on issues that really matter to young people in Lewisham. Last year, in addition to the money given by the local authority, the borough's first young major raised an equivalent amount to set up a music studio for young people in the borough.

It will perhaps be of even more interest to hon. Members to know that the turnout for the young mayor election in October was 46.9 per cent., which was

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21.4 per cent. higher than the turnout for the election of the borough's mayor. The enthusiasm of the candidates, students, parents, teachers and the general public was overwhelming. Clearly when it matters to them, young people can be engaged and will turn out to vote, and there may be a lesson there for us all.

In Lewisham and other areas of England and Wales we also have the young citizens panel, which is an extension of the citizens panel. A group of about 300 young people can be called on to work with the council, the young mayor, health services, the police and others to help address issues that affect young people. Recent issues that have affected young people in Lewisham include teenage pregnancy and drugs. I see that the hon. Member for North Southwark and Bermondsey (Simon Hughes) is here, and he will have great sympathy on those issues. As the MP for a neighbouring constituency, he will know that young people in his area face much the same issues.

Another event, which took place in the borough this week, was "My Voice, My Vote, My Community", which was organised by the Economic and Social Research Council. It was an opportunity for questions to be taken from an audience of all ages, including young people from south London schools. It was part of the national social science week and its aim was to give people an insight into some of the country's leading research and the influence that it has, and will have, on our social, economic and political lives.

Those are some examples of what is happening in my local area. They could be reproduced in other areas throughout the country. They show that young people will happily engage in the democratic process if they are given the opportunity. I am delighted to say that as a result of some of that work, Lewisham council has been justly rewarded with a beacon award for positive youth engagement.

Black and ethnic minority communities are young communities in many ways, and we must do more to engage those under-represented groups. This morning, with politicians from all parties, I attended the launch in Parliament of Operation Black Vote, a project initiated by the Electoral Commission. I have taken part in the scheme before and I was delighted to take part today in my new ministerial role. I commend the scheme to any Member who has not been involved with it. The aim is to improve the political representation of black and minority ethnic communities in local and national politics, and we should do what we can to further that aim.

From those examples, I am not persuaded that the levels of disengagement are based on apathy. In fact, research by MORI in 2003 into attitudes of the group it calls disaffected youth suggests that the issue is more about disaffection. It concludes that young people do not make the connection between their personal dissatisfaction with a particular issue and the use of traditional political processes as a way of expressing that dissatisfaction or of seeking a solution to those problems.

Our challenge is to find ways to bridge the disconnection between young people's civic interests and activities, and the formal processes of democracy. I

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shall give the House a couple of examples of how we might do that. The Electoral Administration Bill is going through the House, and to help tackle under-registration, we have included key measures in the Bill. We have also made available £2.5 million to support a new power to encourage electoral participation. It is intended that that money will enable returning officers and electoral registration officers in England and Wales to undertake promotional activity, such as posters, leaflets and outreach work, to encourage registration and participation in elections locally. We are also legislating to let parents take children into the polling booth, so that children can see their parents vote and how the voting process works.

The Electoral Commission's research after the 2005 general election found that younger age groups were much less likely to turn out to vote. It also highlighted lower turnout in urban areas and among the most socially deprived. The 1824 Collective campaign in London, which has just finished, was aimed at getting more of the capital's young people registered to vote. The campaign involved collaborative work with the Greater London Assembly, the Mayor's office, the Electoral Commission, Operation Black Vote, the Commission for Racial Equality and London Electoral Administration, and it received support through association with young musicians from the city. The success of this campaign is being evaluated. It involved going to the places where people are, rather than using the traditional ways of getting the message across. It used the radio media that young people listen to and it went into the organisations in which they are involved.

My Department is also funding the Hansard Society's Heads Up website, which targets young people and hosts consultations on a variety of topics. It encourages, supports and enables young people to participate in democratic processes, such as the development of Government policy and Acts of Parliament.

The local democracy campaign, launched last month, aims to make councils more relevant and useful to young people by encouraging them to "Take Part Take Power". It will be expanded into a year-round campaign to increase young people's awareness of their power to shape their community.

Following the low election turnout at the 2001 general election, the YVote?/YNot? project was launched. Its aim was to seek young people's views on the reasons behind the increase in youth disengagement from democratic processes. It consulted 60 young people from diverse backgrounds throughout England and concluded that young people wanted politicians to address them in a language that they could understand, not surprisingly, and to be kept informed at all times. They wanted to make citizenship education a priority on the curriculum, and for schools and colleges to receive the support they needed to deliver it. They wanted politicians to talk to them directly, regularly and in their own environment—not just at election times.

I was pleased when those young people said that they wanted citizenship to be a much more important part of the curriculum. We must address whether we are giving teachers all the resources that they need to do so. I thought that the message was beginning to get across, because—possibly unlike other Members present—I am

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an avid fan of "Coronation Street". If I cannot see it because I am in Parliament, I tape it so I can watch it later in the week.

If Members have not watched "Coronation Street", they might get lost at this point, but they should bear with me. A few weeks ago, David and Gail Platt were having a mother and son teenage argument. She was concerned, because she thought that he was getting involved in drugs. He was being a sulky teenager in response, but he turned to his mother and said: "You're in no position to tell me about drugs. Look at the alcohol you drink." He proceeded to tell her just how many brain cells she was losing each day by drinking copious amounts of alcohol, and the effect that different drugs—not only cannabis, but smoking—had on different people. When she looked at him in astonishment because he had all those facts at his fingertips, he said: "But I learn this in citizenship classes." The message is getting out.

Justine Greening (Putney) (Con): I am grateful to the Minister for raising the issue of "Coronation Street". Does she agree that Gail's lifestyle has also contributed to David's potential use of drugs? It has hardly been the most stable over the past few years.

Bridget Prentice : Much as I would enjoy analysing the different events in "Coronation Street", I agree with the hon. Lady: Gail's lifestyle may well have had a direct impact on David's attitude. Nevertheless, the point that I wanted to emphasise was that citizenship classes engage young people, and we need to work harder at promoting them and ensuring that they have all available resources.

That brings me neatly to the Government's citizenship education programme, encouraging pupils' understanding of citizenship through active participation in community projects and discussions about controversial issues. It is important that we do more to prepare school children for their life beyond the classroom and for the role that they will have to play as citizens of this country.

One main outcome of the YVote?/YNot? project was the encouragement of MPs to visit local schools and youth groups. Last month, my right hon. and learned Friend visited Southwark college to encourage students to register in time to vote in May's council elections. She informed them that unless more young people register to vote, Parliament risks neglecting their concerns in favour of those who do register. We would be in danger of going down the road of those who shout loudest getting what they want. Democratic engagement is crucial for everyone.

During voter registration week in October each year in my constituency, the electoral services team visits the sixth form colleges and schools throughout the borough, makes a short presentation on the importance of registering, and provides information on how politics affects young people. The students are then offered an application form to complete and their names are added to the register effective from 1 December that year. We need to encourage and promote more such initiatives to ensure that young people get involved and stay involved in our democracy.

Another example is the UK Youth Parliament, which helps young people to develop into active citizens and is a valuable route through which local and national

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decision makers can hear young people's voices. Participation in the YVote? mock elections run by the Hansard Society encourages greater interest and engagement in the process by young people. Pupils are encouraged to stand as candidates, form election teams and run election campaigns that mirror the real election process. Members are given the opportunity to vote and therefore experience what I like to think is the excitement of participating in an election.

Another initiative, led by the Home Office, is the cross-Government "Together We Can" action plan, which is about giving people more control over their lives and communities. One strand of that is aimed at ensuring that young people are given the opportunity to participate in and influence decision making as confident and responsible citizens in a range of policy areas.

Mr. Sadiq Khan (Tooting) (Lab): I recently discovered that the Government had allocated more than half a million pounds to Wandsworth council to spend on young people's activities. How does my hon. Friend the Minister envisage a council such as Wandsworth engaging with young people in Tooting, for example, to find out the facilities on which they would like that money to be spent?

Bridget Prentice : I am delighted that the Government have made that money available. I am not entirely sure how a council such as Wandsworth might go about using it. I suggest that it does some of the things that Labour-led Lewisham has been doing to engage young people. The one thing that will ensure disengagement is a patronising attitude and a council not engaging directly with the young people for whom the money has been made available. My hon. Friend the Member for Tooting (Mr. Khan), being involved himself in the democratic process, would be a good ambassador for the council to use to ensure that young people in Tooting get the decision-making opportunity that they deserve.

The Power inquiry has received a fair amount of publicity recently. It was set up by the Joseph Rowntree Foundation to investigate how political participation and involvement might be increased and deepened. It explored some of the causes of disillusionment and examined new approaches to political participation. The report was launched a couple of weeks ago and we very much welcome its contribution to the debate. It makes a wide range of recommendations and tries to deal with a number of cultural and structural issues. Some recommendations relate directly to young people. For example, the Power inquiry suggests that the voting and candidacy ages should be reduced to 16. The Government, in the context of our wish to boost voter registration and participation, are keeping that matter under consideration.

I should be upfront at this point and say that I was at Southwark college—the hon. Member for North Southwark and Bermondsey may have been there at the time—just before the last election. I said that I personally—I emphasise "personally"—see an argument for votes at 16. Good heavens, does that mean that I am not being controversial? I do not know. Anyway, the Government are keeping an open mind on the issue. Of course we have moved some way towards that because

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the Electoral Administration Bill going through Parliament reduces the candidacy age from 21 to 18, so we have made a start.

Mr. Khan : Before my hon. Friend finishes dealing with the report by the Power commission, may I ask her whether she was as relieved and reassured as I was when it talked about red herrings and said:

"Disengagement is NOT caused by . . . the supposedly low calibre and probity of politicians"?

Bridget Prentice : We can all be delighted that the Power inquiry came to that conclusion. Sometimes when people see politicians at close quarters and some of the things that we are engaged in, they realise that we are not nearly as bad as we are sometimes painted.

We have made a start with the Electoral Administration Bill, the 1824 Collective campaign, the analysis and recommendations by the Power inquiry and the local democracy campaign, but more can and must be done. Politicians and political parties obviously have a vital role to play in our democracy. The Electoral Commission emphasised, even in the discussions about the controversy over funding of political parties, that political parties are an essential element of our democratic process. It is also important to remember that the political and democratic engagement of young people in our society is an issue for all of us to tackle on a non-partisan basis. This morning's launch of Operation Black Vote was a good example of that. We will deal with the problem properly only by working together.

I am delighted to have opened this debate and I look forward to hearing contributions from hon. Members on both sides of the Chamber. I assure them that all contributions will be received positively and the Government will do what we can to use them to help us engage young people more in future.

2.57 pm

Annette Brooke (Mid-Dorset and North Poole) (LD): I congratulate the Minister on some of the activities in her constituency, which are quite well publicised, especially those involving the young mayor. I hope that that model can be spread throughout the country.

Whenever we talk about participation in democracy by young people, I always think it useful to examine briefly the United Nations convention on the rights of the child. We can often look at those rights in terms of the three "Ps": protection, provision and participation. We have done a lot of work on protection and provision but, in the past, we have neglected participation. Now, we are coming up with more and more projects to increase participation. It is important that we have young people's participation to ensure service delivery to our young people, who are important consumers of those services. The important area of protection also has to be addressed.

The Minister mentioned the 2003 MORI focus group report, which clearly identified that young people were not disaffected in the widest sense of the word. They had strong opinions and wanted to express them. However, there is a lack of a link between that and participating in the way that we are probably talking about primarily this afternoon.

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In the previous Parliament, I was privileged to attend the launch of a Barnardo's project entitled, "Give us a chance". It involved a lot of information gathering and talking about issues of service delivery and participation by young people. One of my favourite quotes from that project illustrates the problem a little. It rather summarises what we in Parliament are here to do. A 14-year-old from Northern Ireland said:

"There have to be rules. If there were no rules then the whole place would go nuts. If there were no rules, there would be people getting murdered and everything. I know it is crap, but you have to have the law."

That is a great challenge to us to get right to the heart of the matter, get the rules right for young people and get their full engagement in determining those rules in the first place. It is the very directness of young people that we should value when trying to improve participation in our communities.

A great deal has happened through youth councils and youth forums, probably in almost every constituency, but that is still only the tip of the iceberg. A particular initiative in my local area is that when there is any consultation on a council matter, buddies work through the youth forum, and young people can communicate their views through one of those buddies. Their views are then translated so that there is full participation during any consultation undertaken by the council, which is helpful because the language we use in Parliament or in council might be a barrier to the way in which young people would like to express themselves directly. I can only emphasise that we need to go much further and continue to think outside the box about how we can fully engage young people.

Unsurprisingly, I am in favour of votes at 16 and a commitment to introduce that would be a real catalyst for change. I was heartened just now to hear the Minister say that the matter is continually under review; there was not a definitive "no", which I take to be encouraging. This is a pleasant debate to take part in because we have a number of people who share the same views. I welcome the call for cross-party co-operation.

Why is it so important to work towards votes at 16? There are many obvious examples of what else one can do at 16. For instance, why should young people not be able to vote at that age if they are expected to pay taxes? It is important to capture young people when they are young and have an interest. We have a real bedrock of citizenship education running all the way through a young person's education; it is the critical time, which is why we need to start planning for votes at 16.

I rather regret the fact that citizenship classes—we used to call them something else—have disappeared. During the Thatcher years, they were not seen as a good thing to have in the curriculum. Many years ago, there used to be a lot of political debate and discussion, but somehow it got squeezed out and it has been important for the Government to take a lead on the issue.

Mr. Khan : After the campaign, such as Make Poverty History or the anti-war campaign, is it fair to say that there is not discussion and debate among young people? Is that not a bit patronising?

Annette Brooke : I thank the hon. Gentleman for his intervention, but I do not think that I made a

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patronising comment. I did not say that there was a lack of interest among young people. However, citizenship education makes a link with the formal processes, which is a foundation. The hon. Gentleman's point about the participation in Make Poverty History is relevant; it was incredibly moving to see young people right at the forefront of that.

Moving fairly quickly to the formal processes involved, although I accept the informal side of the matter and how much there is to galvanise young people already, voting early is all important. An interesting piece of research was carried out by the Social Market Foundation, which reflects something we probably all know from canvassing and voting data that we have. The research shows that there is a "birth effect" in voting, with those who turned 18 just before a general election being much more likely to vote than those who have to wait another four or five years.

I am sure that we are all aware of that because it becomes harder, the more time that has passed, to persuade someone to vote. It is interesting what a physical barrier the fear of going into a polling station or acquiring a postal vote is, even among some adults. We are looking to remove barriers, rather than suggesting that young people are not interested. They are interested because so many issues directly affect them. Capturing them early is all important.

The Minister made many important points, specifically about the generic term "young people"; there are differing rates of participation for all sorts of reasons among different groups of young people. That clearly requires detailed analysis, and appropriate measures and projects must be targeted in those areas. We all need to be conscious of that. If we are to have a truly socially cohesive society, it is important to consider this topic right across the board.

I am sure that we are aware of projects in school such as mock elections. We can see the political engagement involved, but outside of the relatively few young people who participate, there is a big gap, which it is our duty as politicians to fill locally by giving whatever support we can, but also by giving a clear lead nationally. It is a question not just of listening to young people, but of acting to show that their views are taken on board, however they are expressed. Knowing that something makes a difference is half the battle. It is our responsibility to ensure that we show respect and that people can see we are here for positive reasons.

3.7 pm

Mr. Sadiq Khan (Tooting) (Lab): I am grateful for the opportunity to speak in this important debate. I am even more pleased that I was able to be present at this morning's Operation Black Vote and Electoral Commission shadowing scheme event, which the Minister talked about in her introduction. I congratulate her on the widening of her portfolio to include electoral reform, House of Lords reform and party funding, as of the close of business yesterday. I am not sure what they will be by the close of business today. That portfolio is challenging, but I am sure that she agrees it is an exciting one at this juncture in the development of our democracy.

There clearly is a huge problem with young people's participation in democracy. When the Minister kicked off the debate, she mentioned that in the last general

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election only 37 per cent. of those aged between 18 and 24 bothered to vote. That is a slight decrease from 39 per cent. in 2001, and she mentioned that 68 per cent. of young people voted in 1997. That is a cause for huge concern to all of us, and it is one of the reasons why it is apt to have this important debate today.

However, work has been done on the decrease in young people's participation in mainstream policy. For example, the presentation given by the Electoral Commission touched on two reports of recent times. Its report of 2003 considered political engagement in ethnic minority communities, and in 2004 there was an update, looking at political engagement among young people. The writing has been on the wall for some time. The main point that seems to be coming from the commission's work is that we wish political parties looked a bit more like us, and that reflects issues of both gender and age.

I was pleased—the Minister touched on this at the presentation—that there was a sea change in 1997, which meant that for the first time the number of women MPs reached three digits. To a large extent, that was thanks to the all-women shortlist policy imposed by my party in the lead-up to 1997. We see the fruits of that in any Question Time in the Chamber, where women on the Government Front Bench are taking part in important decisions for our democracy.

Jo Swinson (East Dunbartonshire) (LD): Does the hon. Gentleman agree that it is also wonderful to see so many women MPs from all parties in the House and on both Front Benches? Does he also agree that although the Labour party pursued one way of increasing women's representation, there are other ways of doing that, such as the participatory methods that he outlined and which Operation Black Vote launched today? I brought my shadow with me to observe the debate and I am sure that she will find it interesting.

Mr. Khan : I welcome that intervention by the youngest Member of Parliament. The hon. Lady is right. OBV and the Electoral Commission want to encourage, in a mature and non-patronising way, young people and those from disadvantaged backgrounds to take part in democracy. That is what the programme is about.

Post 2005, we saw the highest number of ethnic minority parliamentarians in the House—13 on the Labour Benches and two on the Conservative Benches—and we all welcome that. It is slightly unfortunate that the Liberal Democrats lost their one ethnic minority MP, but progress is being made, albeit slowly.

A question that is worth asking is one that I posed in an intervention in a slightly more discourteous way than I intended: are young people really as apathetic as they are alleged to be? The answer is clearly no. There is no evidence of that, but there is clear evidence from statistics that they fail to engage in the party political system by voting in general elections. The Power commission report is interesting, but I am reluctant to quote from it because it is against politicians cherry-picking parts of its report. It said that cherry-picking is

"a folly repeated time and time again by our political masters"

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and will not work. However, I will quote from it because I quite like some parts of it, but not other parts, which is life.

Simon Hughes (North Southwark and Bermondsey) (LD): The hon. Gentleman may not want to do so now, but I hope he will later reveal which progressive ideas that he as a progressive Member of Parliament has not yet signed up to. I would be very surprised if there was anything in the report that he opposes in his heart of hearts.

Mr. Khan : I agree with the report's point that it is a red herring to say that politicians are of low calibre and lack probity. As a progressive politician, I passionately agree with that. However, I disagree with its comment that an overtly negative news media is not to blame for some of the disillusionment of young people and people generally. The media have a large role to play and I sometimes wonder whether their sole motive is to portray all politicians as being sinister rather than as people who seek to serve the public by going into politics because they believe in a certain ethos, value and vision of society.

Michael Jabez Foster (Hastings and Rye) (Lab): Is it not politicians who bring down other politicians in people's eyes? The press report only what we say about each other. Is that not the big issue?

Mr. Khan : I wish that that was the case. I feel like a greybeard after nine months in Parliament, but the suggestion that the media simply report what we do is, frankly, disingenuous and not the case, although it pains me to say so.

The Power commission accepted that the British public are not apathetic and referred to clear evidence of involvement in pressure politics. For example, the number of people signing petitions, supporting consumer boycotts and joining campaign groups has grown significantly in recent years. I mentioned the Make Poverty History campaign because the report gave an example of the mass public, the Chancellor of the Exchequer and the Prime Minister coming together on an issue that is dear to the hearts of many people.

Since I was 15, I have been knocking on doors for the party that I have been a member of since then and never before has making poverty history been the sort of issue that it was during the last general election. That is a testament to the public and young people in particular getting involved in politics, but not necessarily party politics. The fact that the Conservative party now talks about Africa in terms other than how much money we can make out of it is a testament to young people changing the way in which we discuss politics, poverty and development.

The Power commission also referred to the reasons for the decline in formal politics and the fact that it began in earnest after the 1997 general election. The report is worthy of reading because it made an international comparison and the reality is that it is a problem for most of the western developed world. It is not unique to this country. We can learn lessons and

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teach other western countries about participation of young people in politics and try to use that as a way of levering them into party politics and democracy.

The Power commission discussed voting at 16 and received publicity on that. There were murmurings from my hon. Friend the Member for Doncaster, North (Edward Miliband) when the Minister referred to her personal view that voting at 16 may not be a bad thing. My concern about that is that there is a danger that it may be a gimmick to get out of the bigger problem that many people over 18 do not vote. The debate is about engaging young people in democracy, but there is a crisis with those over 18 who do not take part in mainstream politics.

One reason for that is that politics is not accessible to the general public. Our language—I cannot say Ed Miliband and must say my hon. Friend the Member for Doncaster, North—is one reason why the public do not understand what we are talking about. The fact that we must refer to people in the third person is a source of concern. Most people in my constituency of Tooting, which is less than five miles away, have not been to the Palace of Westminster and do not realise how accessible it is. That is also a source of concern.

I shall give an example of the problem. Recently, I was approached by an organisation that wanted to organise a promotion by a young music band for young people taking part in democracy. I rang the Serjeant at Arms to find out whether the band could use a room to promote the CD and was told that music is not allowed on the Estate, which meant that the event could not be held in the Palace of Westminster. I then thought of the wheeze of holding it in College gardens across the road, where there would be a backdrop of Parliament. I rang the Director of the Estate and was told, after to-ing and fro-ing, that it could happen if there were fewer than 12 people, if props were not used on the grass and so on, and that there would be a charge of £250 per hour for the promo to get people to vote. I was then told to contact Victoria park gardens.

The matter went on and on and eventually the organisation that wanted to hold the event to persuade people to vote at elections decided to pull the plug and not to hold it. It is a sad story. I tease the Under-Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport, my hon. Friend the Member for Tottenham (Mr. Lammy), whenever I see him by saying that one reason why I became involved in politics was that he managed to get Alicia Keys to Parliament to perform. I suspect that that is why there is now a ban on music. I thought that if I could meet lots of pop stars by being an MP, I should become one. The point is that Alicia Keys and musicians are able to access an audience that we cannot. I am not suggesting that all of us or any of us should go on "Big Brother" or "The Games", although one hon. Member is involved in "The Games" and I wish her luck in her competition, but that may not be the best way of making politics more accessible. There are problems with the place where democracy is seen to take place, because it is not accessible to a significant number of our constituents.

Simon Hughes : We can debate which programmes advance the cause of politicians. I have not seen any previous episodes of "The Games" but, having watched it last night and seen my hon. Friend the Member for

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Falmouth and Camborne (Julia Goldsworthy) take part in the curling competition and ending up in second place overall, I thought the good news was that it regularly reported her as having taken part in the Budget debate. It linked her day job and that activity in a positive and useful way.

Mr. Khan : I agree. The programme also mentioned the special helicopter laid on to take her from London to Sheffield and back, but I will not go into that.

Before we leave the point about politics not engaging young people—the Heineken dilemma—it is worth mentioning that we need to find a way of reaching those parts of our community that we have hitherto not been able to reach, including the hip-hop generation, people in our mosques, those who follow football and sports teams, and so on.

My hon. Friend the Minister talked about the citizenship curriculum and how we could use that as a way of getting people involved, and engaging and teaching them about politics and the community. For me, the reason it is so important to do that was compounded by what happened on 7 July 2005. Not only did those four people kill themselves and 52 Londoners, and injure 700 people, but they were born and raised in this country. They went to our schools and, to all intents and purposes, were integrated, but they thought that the only recourse that they had was to commit an act of terror against their fellow citizens.

When I was involved in the task force, going around the country speaking to people, I discovered how disengaged they felt from the process. They thought that their Government and politicians were not engaging with them on simple issues to do with foreign policy, why we do certain things, why certain things happen and their knowledge of the political process. That is an example of the extreme end of the spectrum of what can happen when politics is completely disengaged from the lives of ordinary people.

I conclude with two points, the first of which is the routes to becoming a politician, MP or councillor. As things are structured—they have been like this for a while—politics is a profession that someone can get into only if they are a person of means. When people have applied to me to become an intern, I have been surprised that unless they are the son or daughter of a middle-class parent or have other means, it is impossible for them to do the work of shadowing a parliamentarian and learning about the trade, although that is perhaps not surprising when one considers that interns work for free.

The hon. Member for East Dunbartonshire (Jo Swinson) referred to the OBV scheme. One of the beauties of that scheme and the Electoral Commission scheme is that they involve people of low means who would otherwise not have a chance to shadow MPs. Standing as a parliamentary candidate for a political party is an arduous process, requiring people to give up their jobs for 12 to 14 weeks. The challenge is this: how many working-class politicians will be standing for political parties in winnable seats in four or five years' time? I am concerned that the number will fall.

Secondly, my hon. Friend the Minister talked about those who shout the loudest having their voices heard. That is a concern, but the real travesty—all three parties deserve blame for this and should take responsibility for

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it—is that, in our quest to get the vote in marginal seats in middle England, we may have neglected those parts of the country that our party thought formed our core support. That has led to the rise of the British National party and the 19 councillors that we now have from a far-right party. People have lost all respect for their politicians and are disengaged.

The reason the debate is so important is that an opportunity has been opened up to us by the citizenship classes in our schools and via a new generation of young MPs who were elected in 2005 and who are engaged in their communities—I see evidence of that from all three parties represented in the Chamber today. The challenge for us is to ensure that our young communities get more engaged in politics in the lead-up to the next general election than they have been in the last two.

3.23 pm

Michael Jabez Foster (Hastings and Rye) (Lab): It is often still asked, "Where were you when Kennedy was assassinated?"—I do not mean the local events among the Liberal Democrats, but back in 1963. I know where I was: at the town hall in Hastings, speaking as a member of the youth council. Some people think it a bit sad that one should be so engaged, and that young people today are very different and do not behave in that way. I am not so sure. Young people today are just as keen to get involved in politics, but they are not so keen to get involved in party politics. They certainly have an opinion and if given the opportunity, they will express it.

The trouble is that young people are put off by we oldies. We say that they do not have experience, but the truth is that all young people have experiences that we do not have. They know what it is like to live as a young person in 2006. They know what it is like to be on the street. They know about drugs. Many of us are simply unaware of that sort of activity. They know how they feel about the police and sometimes they know what it is like to be looking for accommodation, so we should celebrate it when young people get involved.

Rather like the Minister, I want to talk about what has been going on in my constituency and why it is important to encourage the participation of young people in the political process. We have had an excellent youth council in Hastings and Rye—it has not run since 1963 until today, but come and gone, although today we have an excellent council once again. The schools and the youth organisations choose their representatives and, most importantly, have a formal link with Hastings borough council. The issue is therefore not just about young people's concerns, but the wider concerns that they discuss and which might be thought of as adult.

My hon. Friend the Minister gave Lewisham a plug, so I want to give a plug to the Labour Hastings borough council, under the leadership of Jeremy Birch. The council should be applauded for its work with the youth council. It provides the youth council with a full-time worker and a budget of £16,000—not as much as in Lewisham—but with £6,000 for the young people to decide how it is spent. They make those decisions and they spend the money wisely.

Just recently the youth council conducted a survey involving the bus service, although they did not do that just by themselves, but linked with the seniors forum to produce their report. It was discovered—oddly, some

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would say—that young people and older people often had common interests. They had the same concerns about the buses not running late enough and about the safety of standing around at a bus stop late at night. The survey was a great example of young people's experience helping to form a policy and perhaps making some changes in the decisions that were subsequently made.

The young people's council also has regular two-monthly meetings in session with the borough council. There is an exchange of views, in which the members meet up, talk and discuss the various issues. In fact, last month the young people's council went in for speed dating with Hastings borough council. That was not something that I would expect to happen, but each youth councillor and each member of the borough council spent three minutes together, exchanging views. Actually getting a view over in three minutes is a lesson for politicians, and that is the point: young people are impatient to express their views. They want to express them, but often the way in which we engage with them prevents that from happening.

The youth council's next project, again in conjunction with the seniors forum, is a crime and safety film, which is to be produced by a local TV station. The lesson is clear. If young people are offered opportunities, they will get involved and come up with conclusions that can help the wider community too.

Likewise, I recently attended the hustings for members of the Youth Parliament. The Youth Parliament has been mentioned, but it does not receive the publicity that it deserves. It was launched in the House of Commons as long ago as 1999 and there are now 300 elected MYPs, aged between 11 and 18. They represent young men and women across the nation, and they tend to be a heck of a lot more representative than we are. There is a goodly number from ethnic minorities, and some members have physical or even learning difficulties, yet still they become MYPs. How come we cannot learn from that?

The year before last, the MYP for Hastings and Rother was a chap called Phil Carey. I mention his name because I was surprised and pleased to note that the Power report was published last week with his name on it, as one of the youth representatives on the commission playing a part in advancing engagement in the political process. He was able to achieve that position through the Youth Parliament.

The week before last, I was invited to attend the declaration of poll for this year's MYP for Hastings and Rother. The campaign was impressive, resulting in a victory for Luke Springthorpe, a 16-year-old from St. Leonards, followed closely by his deputy MYP Nicole Pavitt, a 14-year-old from the Grove school in Hastings. Incidentally, it might not be a bad idea for us to have deputies. It is a heck of a job this MP business, but MYPs share it. They allow a deputy to take over when exams or other things get in the way.

What impressed me about the campaign was the dedication of the candidates to the issues in hand. Anti-bullying, which we hardly talk about in the House, was a key issue in the campaign materials of almost every young person in the campaign. One might expect some of the other issues that were addressed to arise,

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such as the environment, but another issue that came up was asylum seekers—not Daily Mail front-page issues, but how young people really feel about people who come to this country. They wanted to engage in a—I do not like to use the word liberal—progressive way in meeting people from overseas.

Those are adult issues, not kids' issues. I believe that when young people are given the opportunity to do so, they will engage in that way. We should therefore encourage groups such as the UK Youth Parliament to play a fuller part in our democratic process. Perhaps we should invite them here to the Houses of Parliament more often. Three or four years ago, when I suggested in the main Chamber that perhaps at the weekends or in the evenings when we were not using the green Benches, the UK Youth Parliament might do so, there were cries of horror. One Member said, "It would be treason to allow young people to sit on the green Benches if they have not been elected." They have been elected, but to a different Parliament. That sort of initiative might be just a gesture, but it is important that we make gestures to show young people that adult politicians in this Parliament care about what they say.

I have found it useful, in my work as an MP, to work with my MYP. I think that they have found it useful too. I have conducted joint surgeries and question-and-answer sessions with their peers. They enjoy being part of that process and finding that we have methods to bring about outcomes that they would not be able to effect in isolation.

I mention those experiences because it is important to appreciate that people such as Phil Carey, Luke Springthorp, Nicole Pavitt and others will one day be making decisions for us. It is not just about them; it is about us too. I rather like the amusing little sign that goes in the back of cars that says, "Be kind to your children, they'll be choosing your nursing home." Young people will choose our future as well as theirs, so it is important that we do not have a disengaged group of young people who find our values alien. We respect their values, of course, but it would be nice to feel that we have common values. We have to engage them, respect their opinions and, to some extent at least, take note of what they say.

It has been mentioned that back in the 2001 election, just 39 per cent. of young people aged between 18 and 24 voted. That number dropped to 37 per cent. in 2005. Some young people were asked why they were uninterested and did not vote. The survey suggested that it was simply party politics that they were not interested in. They were interested in the issues, but did not see party politics as the answer. Obviously, the parties have failed to make party politics relevant to meeting young people's genuine concerns. Engagement could be the starting point. We should welcome young people's contributions, experience and, perhaps, wisdom, but, above all, for sure, treating them with respect is a good starting point.

Mr. Edward O'Hara (in the Chair): Order. I call the Lib Dem spokesperson to speak out of order because he has to attend a meeting with the Lord Chancellor shortly.

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3.33 pm

Simon Hughes (North Southwark and Bermondsey) (LD): I am grateful, Mr. O'Hara, to you for calling me now. I hope hon. Members understand that we sometimes have conflicting duties, but my colleagues will be here and I hope to be back by the end.

I am grateful to have this opportunity and for the measured, helpful and constructive way in which the Minister introduced the debate. I formally welcome her to her new responsibilities, and ask her formally to pass on—I will do it informally when I can—our thanks to my neighbour, the right hon. and learned Member for Camberwell and Peckham (Ms Harman), the Minister of State, Department for Constitutional Affairs, who took her responsibilities in that job extremely seriously and performed them energetically, for which I, and others, are grateful. I was particularly happy to participate with her in the efforts to build up the number of young people who participate in the London local authority elections this May, and the initiatives that the Department and the right hon. and learned Lady took to try to reach the 18 to 24 age group. I hope that they will bear some fruit. It is in all our interests to have more young people voting.

The Minister was right to say that in 40 years, the participation of groups such as young people, black people, people from ethnic minority communities and poor people has gone from being high to being low. As the right hon. and learned Lady regularly says, our duty is to try to engage them all in the process. The debate is a small part of that discussion.

My next point follows exactly from the point that the hon. Member for Hastings and Rye (Michael Jabez Foster) made at the end of his speech. The more respect that we give to young people, the more they will treat democracy with respect. I am troubled by a series of adverts that I have seen—I have not taken this up with the authorities yet—about safer communities. I do not know whether other hon. Members have seen them, but they ask, "Can you spot the difference," and have two almost identical pictures and make the point that one community is safer than the other. I was troubled that the implication was that the safer community picture was the one that did not have three youngsters with hoods on sitting on a bench in a park. That sends completely the wrong message. There is nothing to suggest that they were not sitting there entirely innocently, passing the time of day with other people in the park. We must get those messages right. Perhaps with other colleagues, across the House, we can ensure that such mistakes are not made.

I have a list of tributes to give, because many people have done a lot of work on this subject. It would be wrong not to acknowledge, as the Minister did, a whole litany of people, which I shall do briefly. Over the years, Governments have worked hard on this. I have a friend who worked in government for a while, dealing with young people's affairs, who tried hard to ensure that government kept thinking of imaginative ways to approach the problem. It is a frustrating, difficult system to move, and government moves quite slowly, but many people in it work hard.

Political parties try hard. We are challenged all the time and respond in different ways, but it is not for lack of trying to recruit, engage and involve young people.

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My hon. Friend the Member for East Dunbartonshire (Jo Swinson) might be able to add a more topical, up-to-date word on that from her recent experiences. In that context, I pay tribute to our youth and student movement, which is an active, energetic, engaged and effective group of people in our party, who sometimes cause the leadership difficulty, and sometimes not, but that is their role, which is important.

In this building, the parliamentary education unit regularly arranges events. Not many weeks ago, I sat where you are, Mr. O'Hara, chairing a debate that it organised among schools from all over the country, to which many of us were invited to participate. The unit perpetually seeks to educate people, and does a good job.

There is a list of organisations to which I want to pay tribute, such as the British Youth Council and the UK Youth Parliament, which is increasingly strong and effective. Like the Minister, I was at the British Museum recently with many Ministers and spokespeople from the main parties engaging with people from all over the UK. They were positive and lively sessions. The Citizens Foundation national Youth Parliament has done good work, and the Hansard Society perpetually challenges. It holds huge events in Westminster Hall with thousands of people who are really positive and engaged. I am sure that you, Mr. O'Hara, and many others, will have participated in such events.

Other organisations that I want to mention are: the Children's Rights Alliance, which lobbied us today; the YMCA and YWCA, which have recently been much more active with such things; and the Electoral Reform Society, which is based in my constituency and always seeks to ensure that people are engaged.

I join others in paying tribute to the Commission for Racial Equality, Operation Black Vote, and the Hindu Forum of Britain, all of which have set up mentoring schemes. I have mentored two young people through the CRE-OBV scheme, one of whom would, I hope, say that the experience was positive enough to put him seriously back on course to do the career that he planned. He is a young, Mancunian of Pakistani background, who had dropped out of university, but who has now got into Cambridge. Hopefully, he will come back into the political process.

The other person I mentored was a young Chinese guy from north London, who is very involved in community activities. I have just agreed to take on a young woman who has an interesting new job to do with the 2012 bid—she is a black woman who is originally from Birmingham, or the west midlands, but has settled in London—and a young Hindu woman.

It is important that we do our job here. If we are to change the gender balance of Parliament and to have a Parliament that looks like Britain, we need to take positive steps, not just passive steps. The hon. Member for Tooting (Mr. Khan) is right. I would predict that applications to work here, which we all receive, are largely from males rather than females and disproportionately from white, middle-class males. I take active steps to ensure that the outcome is not like the input, otherwise we would have a very unrepresentative succession.

Work experience is another good opportunity. We all probably offer work experience to schools in our constituencies and to others. Sometimes the photocopying

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gets a bit tedious, and other tasks can be as well, but for those interested in politics it can be useful. A young lad at the Hindu Forum launch yesterday said, "I'm really keen to come and do some work experience." That has now been fixed up and he will come later in the year.

I pay tribute to local councils, many of which do a good job. Lewisham is one of the leaders and I pay tribute to it. I did not know about Hastings borough council. I know that my borough, Southwark, which is next to the Minister's borough of Lewisham, has increasingly done more. As well as having a youth forum and such things, which are important for engaging young people, it has made efforts that I hope are evidence of political commitment. It is difficult to check such statistics, but I think that when the current administration in Southwark took control four years ago—they happen to be colleagues of mine—it was the youngest administration in the country, with an average age in their early 30s. When I say that to many of our colleagues who run local councils around the country, they recoil in horror. They often have no members in their early 30s, let alone have it as their average age. It is important that we ensure that people in that energetic period of their life can participate in the running of our local authorities; I pay tribute to those authorities for that. Stockport is another that has been positive.

There are also individuals around this room, and others who may have gone before. The hon. Member for Doncaster, North (Edward Miliband) has taken on the role of chair of the all-party group on youth affairs, which is important. My hon. Friend the Member for Montgomeryshire (Lembit Öpik) has been active over the years. I include my hon. Friends the Members for Westmorland and Lonsdale (Tim Farron) and for Manchester, Withington (Mr. Leech), a new MP who now speaks on youth affairs and sadly could not be with us today.

I pay tribute to my three hon. Friends who are the youngest MPs in Britain—in Wales, Scotland and England. They are young women, importantly, and are my hon. Friends the Members for Cardiff, Central (Jenny Willott), for East Dunbartonshire and for Falmouth and Camborne (Julia Goldsworthy). They are all—in spite of the helicopter, which I am told was the only way that my hon. Friend the Member for Falmouth and Camborne could make it to the Budget from Sheffield, where they were filming—trying to do what young colleagues in all parties want, which is to show that they are real people with interests. They are not abnormal, and they have interests in sport and activity just like everyone else. That is one of the messages we need to get out. People here or in councils are not abnormal or different; they are normal. Everyone looking in should have equal access and should be able to think that they could be equally at home here and play their part.

Mr. Khan : I said that I disagreed with the Power commission on the role of the media. The media's intrusion on the private lives of parliamentarians shocks me as a new parliamentarian. Does the hon. Gentleman

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not think that that is a deterrent to young people who might want to be involved in politics as a full-time vocation?

Simon Hughes : I do not know whether that was meant to be a topical question for me, but I agree. I look forward to having a debate later with the hon. Gentleman, outside the Chamber, about the Power commission. I agree with his reservations about some of its comments, but I hope that we might agree broadly about its recommendations, which are the crucial part. It is interesting that the Power commission was set up by the Joseph Rowntree Reform Trust and the Joseph Rowntree Charitable Trust, which have always been part of that progressive social group that seeks always to make democracy more participatory. I thank them for putting up the money so that that body could do its work and report to us. Everyone is taking that seriously.

I want to pay one last tribute. The hon. Member for Tooting referred to one of the difficulties of being elected, whether as a local councillor, a member of the London assembly or as a Member of Parliament. In spite of those difficulties, be they the loss of privacy or of personal time and space, with people knocking at the door or ringing up all the time, some people stand for election as young as they can. One member of our party, a woman called Hannah Hedges, was the youngest parliamentary candidate in the country and stood at the age of 21. It was important that she did that. She was selected through the proper process and stood for a parliamentary seat.

A friend of mine, Niko Baar, became the youngest councillor in the country in Southwark some years ago, at the age of 21. He did a good eight years as a councillor and then went off to do other things, which was reasonable after eight years of such intensive work. There are other things in life. That is another important message: people do not have to go into politics to stay. Politics needs people who come in and go out, or who do other things and then come in. It is important that people do not think that they will get locked in for life. There is a lot of pressure, once one says yes. My friend Richard Allan, the former MP for Sheffield, Hallam, stood down for no other reason than that he had other things to do with his life at the end of his 30s and in his early 40s.

I will be quick and make three substantive points. There are ways in which homes, schools and the media can do more to ensure that the political engagement with young people happens better. Parents have that responsibility. Families often have strong political debates, even in this country—I know that the French have much more politicised meal times than we do. The children with the most encouragement often become much more politically engaged. Baroness Williams tells the story of being brought up in a political household. Of course it makes one more politicised. Parents have a duty.

I agree with the hon. Member for Hastings and Rye that visits here and to council chambers, and the use of the Chamber and the council chamber, are important. However, it must not be seen as theatre. There is a danger sometimes that it is seen as theatre, not reality. People dress up and it is a game. The important thing is that there should be real discussion, real debate and a real exchange of views.

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I have just come from the Globe theatre, which is holding a schools spring event. Lots of schools are doing "As You Like It". Theatre can often engage people in politics. The great Shakespearian plays, as well as others, contain some big political issues. There are a lot of ways to enable young people to emerge with strong feelings. We need to encourage them at all times.

We need to keep on encouraging our radio, television, video and other providers to do the job better. That is why it is a good thing when the BBC do "Question Time" and "Any Questions" for young people. That may give us a lesson.: those programmes move around the country. Last time I was on "Question Time" it was in Harlow, I think. We could do better as a Parliament not to move ourselves round lock, stock and barrel but to do a bit of what the Scottish Parliament and Welsh Assembly do, and to take what we do more visibly from this place to the boroughs, to the counties and around Britain.

We need to think about how we take politics to people. It is exactly the point that the Minister made about going to register people rather than expecting them to come to us.

Mr. David Kidney (Stafford) (Lab): May I make the obvious point that we have permitted Select Committees to go around the country, and they often do so?

Simon Hughes : That is a good thing. We should think about how we can engage those who vote least in that process.

I have had a view for a long time about the right age at which people should be able to vote. However, whatever view we reach, at that age, UK-born and bred citizens should have a citizenship ceremony like the one for new arrivals. To make a reality of citizenship education, which can be good, although it is sometimes dull, we should have a process of moving on from training and learning to life, like the Americans do. The course tells people not only about voting, but about jury trial, magistracy and the things that come with adulthood and are part of the opportunities on the other side of the door. We should consider that to be a regular process of the formal education period before people choose whether to stay on or to go to college, sixth form or school.

My party has been clear about the agenda. I want to set out what I think and where I hope the Minister and Government can be encouraged further. I recognise the good work that has been done. We have to improve registration and participation; it has to be easier to register. I like the Power commission's idea that at 16, if that is the age, there should be automatic registration and a national insurance number should be issued automatically, so that it is made easy. Young people move around more quickly and often than older people, so a way that allows people to register more easily is vital. Also, people need to be able to register much nearer an election, because often people's minds do not focus. We are still too slow; in the modern age, a week or two before the election—once the campaign has started—there really ought to be a week's window in which people can still register. We have just had the last registration for the May elections, but a lot of people will not really think about them until after Easter. We must change that.

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We have to make it easier for people to vote where they are. We should be able to vote wherever there is a voting place, and before too long I hope that we can vote by other methods, whether online or whatever. I realise the technical difficulties and the security issues involved, but it is nonsense to tell someone that they have to go to Aylwin girls school—good though that school is—and cannot vote at a place near where they live, work or move around.

Bridget Prentice : I am conscious that the hon. Gentleman has another meeting to go to, but on people being able to vote where they are, if we could move to more technological forms of voting, would it not be possible for the voting booth to go out to community centres, care homes and even schools, so that we could actually take the vote to the people, rather than the other way around?

Simon Hughes : And above all to the bus stops, the bus and railway stations, and—in London—the tube stations, where there are real numbers of people, and where we can catch people as they go about. We could also take voting to the supermarkets, I guess, and other places.

All of us are probably very good at involving young people in the political process as we go about our weekly lives; that is why we are here. We should be taking young people to surgeries, and when we knock on doors, we should not say to the young person who answers, "Can you find your dad or your mum?", but should talk to them first about why we are at the door. We should let them come out with us if they want to, as they often might in school holidays. They might ask, "Where are you going? What are you doing? Can I canvass with you?" If they came with us, they could see the process; we have a duty to engage them, and for kids it is often very exciting and interesting. A bit of a competition is always a good thing, and they normally enjoy it.

We all have a duty to do the best we can to ensure that our parties are properly representative. I am trying hard to make sure that ours is, as are my colleagues who are present. I know that we are all trying to do that but, bluntly, we have to work harder. None of us has got there, yet.

I support votes at 16, as does my party. The key reason is that if we allow people to leave school at that age, but they cannot vote until a period afterwards, there is a disconnection in their learning, between the preparation and the opportunity. As young people have shorter attention spans, any interest that has been cultivated may well be lost by distractions. That, for me, is the overwhelming reason, quite apart from the reason to do with the civic age of responsibility. The other day, my hon. Friend the Member for Bristol, West (Stephen Williams) made a persuasive case for votes at 16 under a ten-minute Bill downstairs; it failed by only eight votes, I think. I had the figures somewhere, but I have mislaid them.

The hon. Member for Hastings and Rye asked the important question of what young people are interested in: issues or parties? It is issues, of course. Parties are only methods of getting issues changed. Political parties are only the means, not the ends, and young people are interested in the ends—in peace not war, justice not

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injustice, equality not inequality, and no discrimination rather than discrimination. They are really engaged. I particularly pay tribute to minority ethnic community young people; in my experience, they are often much more politically alert than those born and brought up here, and whose families have been here for generations. That is because at home there is a combination of an international experience and a national experience, so they probably understand international affairs much better than people who have links with no other countries.

The youth services and local authorities have a duty to be always helpful. To end, I give an example of one thing that we might do. Young people's interest is often cultivated by seeing the political process deliver. Kids might knock on my door and ask, "Simon, can we have a football cage on our estate?" If there is a process whereby in a short period their interest in getting something done can deliver them through the consultation and the outcome, and if they can then see that cage there, they are far more likely to trust in the process. If the process takes power away from them and says, "Leave it to us," they will not be engaged. If the process says, "Okay, let's get on with it," and nothing ever happens, they will say, "When we asked, nothing was delivered." For most young people, the important thing is seeing that they have the ability to influence something through to a conclusion. That, more than anything, would make them feel more engaged. We are going in the right direction, but there is real urgency for us to do better and go faster. If we do that well, we can ensure really healthy politics; if we do not, we are in for trouble in the years ahead.

3.55 pm

Edward Miliband (Doncaster, North) (Lab): I am grateful to you for calling me to speak, Mr. O'Hara. I apologise to the House, because I shall have to leave a bit later, but I hope to come back for the winding-up speeches.

This debate is timely, because there is a crisis with young people's participation in politics. Other speakers have spoken eloquently about the shockingly low percentage of young people who participated in the general election. My hon. Friend the Member for Tooting (Mr. Khan) is right: there is a general problem with engagement and disengagement, but it is particularly acute among young people, and disproportionately so.

There are three things that we need to talk about in this debate in terms of making a difference to young people's participation. The first has to do with how we talk about young people, both in politics and in the media. The second is about the way in which we engage young people on issues that directly affect their lives, and I will say a little about what I mean by that later. The third has to do with the democratic process.

On the first issue—how we talk about young people—part of the problem is that we tend to see young people either as problems and people who cause trouble, or as bearers of potential and people on whom the future of our country depends. We rarely talk about them as citizens in themselves, who have legitimate voices. That is partly why such debates are important; they start to change that dynamic.

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The reality of young people today is that 98 per cent. of 10 to 17-year-olds are neither cautioned for, nor convicted of, a criminal offence in any given year, but one certainly would not know that from listening to some debates in the House or in the media. I cite one example in the media. MORI carried out a poll in 2004 that showed that 70 per cent. of press articles about young people were negative. It said that young people are quoted in only 8 per cent. of stories about them. Two thirds of 11 to 18-year-olds would not trust a journalist to tell them the truth and perhaps that is not surprising given the nature of the stories written about young people.

That is not to deny the issues of antisocial behaviour and so on in all our communities, but it is the responsibility of both the media and us politicians to give a more rounded picture of young people. Put it this way: if, on 49 out of 50 occasions when we talked about young people, we did so in positive terms, they might regard our political proceedings somewhat differently. If we were doing that, we would be representing young people fairly.

In a way, my second point echoes the words of the hon. Member for North Southwark and Bermondsey (Simon Hughes), who has talked about such issues over a long period and who has done incredibly important work on the subject. We have to start to engage young people on the issues that affect their lives which are simply unaddressed. I am thinking particularly of services for young people in their own communities, and of spaces and places for young people to go. I care a lot about that. For a long time, that has been a neglected area of Government policy. I am not making a party political point; I think that that has happened under Governments of both parties.

I much welcome the fact that the Government have started to redress the balance with the youth Green Paper and the youth funds, which are now starting to become available. Over the next two years, more than £100 million will be available for giving young people a say about the kind of services that they want in their communities. That is important as young people care about a whole range of things beyond the issues that directly affect them, such as youth clubs and so on. However, if we in politics do not engage with and listen to them on those issues, what hope can we have that they will believe that we take them seriously on the whole range of issues?

The democratic process is at the core of this debate. I am sympathetic to—and, it is fair to say, a convert to—the idea of votes at 16, partly because of the issues of principle involved. At 16, young people have the right to get married and join the military, although only with parental consent, it is true. They can also leave compulsory schooling and go out to work. Those issues of principle are important. I do not mean that they are overwhelming and should automatically mean that people of 16 should have the vote, but they are a compelling case to begin with.

The hon. Member for Mid-Dorset and North Poole (Annette Brooke) mentioned that the younger people get involved in the possibility of voting, the more likely they are to vote. I also cite a report from the Social Market Foundation on that subject. It may seem counter-intuitive, but where the date of a general election falls, relative to the 18th birthday of a young

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person, makes a big difference to whether they will vote. That may be to do with their going to college or university or their excitement about gaining the vote and having the chance to exercise it immediately. It is also an important part of the case for lowering the voting age.

The voting age was changed to 18 in 1969 and I have looked back at the House of Commons debates of 1968 on the issue. They are interesting because they reflect the same sorts of arguments that we hear today about voting at 16. For the interest—I shall not say amusement—of Members, I cite a speech made by the late Quintin Hogg, who spoke in one of them, although not, I think, for the Conservative Front Bench. He stated that his belief that the voting age should not be lowered to 18 was based on

"the conviction that there is a case for a period of time after maturity, of which three years is prima facie not a bad period, in which to go about the world getting experience before one is held to one's contracts, before one makes an irreparable mistake in marriage and even before one has what I still regard as the privilege, as well as the right, of the parliamentary franchise."—[Official Report, 18 November 1968; Vol. 773, c. 1015.]

Some of the arguments today about whether people are ready for votes at 16 are based on similar convictions. Obviously, we have to draw the line somewhere; no one proposes that we should lower the voting age to below 16, but hon. Members who doubt the proposal should bear those debates of 1968 in mind. A lot of the 16-year-olds whom I meet are either ready for the vote or would be, with the right sort of citizenship education and other things.

Lowering the voting age is not a panacea and no one should pretend that it is. That takes me to a wider point about the democratic process. We need to think across the piece about how to show that mainstream politics is more open to young people. Citizenship education is important and working out how it can be strengthened is part of this issue. My sense is that the teaching of citizenship is great in some places, but not so great in others. In some places, the subject seems to be more about institutions than live and controversial political issues. One of the ways in which to engage people in politics is to make them think that they are exciting and about their lives.

I echo the words of my hon. Friend the Member for Hastings and Rye (Michael Jabez Foster), who says that we need to find ways of opening up Parliament. I am struck by the fact that, to my knowledge, the UK Youth Parliament has been sitting for four or five years, but never in this place.

Simon Hughes : As you may know better than me, Mr. O'Hara, the Youth Parliament has certainly met in this Chamber or in a Committee Room on this corridor, although not yet in either of the Chambers downstairs.

Edward Miliband : I am grateful for that, and stand corrected. I suppose I meant that the Youth Parliament has never had its big annual meeting in this House; that would be a welcome development. The House authorities and others should consider that.

Local elections and engaging people on a local level are important. I, too, have met the young mayor of Lewisham. Last week I was with him at a question time with young people. I got a rough ride—members of the

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governing party, even humble Back Benchers, can expect that. The mayor is an impressive person. He has a group of advisers and a budget. As my hon. Friend the Minister said, he was elected with a reasonable turnout. All those things are important. In Doncaster, we have a youth council that is going strong and there was a high turnout at its elections. All those issues across the piece can make a difference to the engagement of young people.

I end by making a final point that takes in all of the issues. One of my political heroes is the American Senator Robert Kennedy. Forty years ago, he gave a speech in South Africa to a group of young people, and one of the things in politics that he warned most against was the danger of a sense of futility, the sense that nothing can change. If I had to sum up the one biggest problem of our proceedings and politics today, I would say that it was the sense among many people that intervening in or trying to affect the political process is futile, because they think that things will not change and they cannot have a voice. That is what we need to change—both generally, and specifically in respect of young people.

I welcome this debate. I welcome the Minister's positive comments, in a personal capacity, about votes at 16, and I look forward to Members, here and elsewhere, continuing to make the case for the engagement of young people in politics in the months and years ahead.

4.7 pm

Jo Swinson (East Dunbartonshire) (LD): I apologise for arriving late; I was at a sitting of a statutory instrument Committee. I shall have to leave about half an hour before the end of the debate to catch my flight to my constituency, although I would very much like to hear the summing up. I am sure I shall read the Hansard report.

I want to share my experience as the youngest MP in the House. People often talk to me—in party political contexts, at conferences or at events in the wider community—about the issue of young people and democracy. They ask, "How do we get more young people interested in politics?" I often think, "Are you not asking the wrong person?" Given that I have stood for election and been elected, I am clearly a young person who is very interested in politics. It is the wrong question to ask because as we have heard today, young people are interested in politics.

Last July, I was at the Make Poverty History march in Edinburgh and it was stuffed full of young people from all around the country making their voices heard. I am sure that hon. Members who attended the Stop Climate Chaos lobby a few weeks ago will have noted the number of young people there who were campaigning on that issue.

Young people are generally engaged in the issues, but how do we turn that engagement towards the political process? That is the challenge for us all. Members have talked today about different options and other things that are happening in their constituencies to engage young people. We all go to speak in schools in our constituencies and answer pupils' questions about our work as MPs and how the parliamentary system works. I, for one, always find such events incredibly enjoyable.

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It does not matter whether I have been wading through the intricacies of a Bill and its legislative jargon or finding piles of correspondence in my office—when I go to a school, I forget all that.

Usually, there is a group of several dozen young people who start off slightly sceptical and think that the meeting will be dull and dry. However, starting to ask questions acts as a catalyst; more and more questions keep coming and they get incredibly engaged. The brilliant thing about school pupils is that there is no politeness or faffing around not being direct—they get straight to the point, asking how much I earn or whatever is on their minds. I always come away from such meetings feeling inspired about the next generation of people coming through the system.

We have also heard about the Youth Parliament, which does a huge amount of good work. I lend my voice to the calls for it to be able to use the Commons Chamber when it meets. That would be excellent. Many schools have debating societies. I got involved when my school ran parliamentary debates, which sparked my first interest in politics back in the early 1990s. Last Friday I went to a meeting of the European Youth Parliament, west of Scotland division, which was being held in my constituency and where people were debating European issues. In addition, there is also an extremely successful BBC schools question time event.

There are many projects or organisations set up to involve young people in politics. Often, they are all siphoned off as a separate section: we say to ourselves, "This is the young people being involved in politics bit. The other politics bit is in the House of Commons or the council chambers, or in groups up and down the country".

We must also promote direct engagement with the political process. Currently, young people cannot vote until they are 18. My view is clear: whenever I meet young people, whether it be in schools or at any community events, I am their Member of Parliament. Whether or not they can vote does not matter. If they are concerned about issues, they should write to me, e-mail me, check on my website to see what I have said or listen to my podcast. They should use whichever means they can access to find out about politics. I want them to get in touch. Sometimes when I say that to a young person it is a bit of a new idea to them. As they cannot vote, they have not thought that they can have that voice. I am pleased to say that I have received more letters and e-mails from young people as a result of that approach.

It is also important to encourage young people to go further than just having their view. They might like to get involved in many ways. For example, they might want to join a pressure group and get involved in the organisation of campaigns. If they have a particular affiliation to a political party, they should go further and join the political party. They should find out more about standing, be it for a local town, parish or community council, the local authority, Parliament, one of the Assemblies or the European Parliament.

My hon. Friend the Member for North Southwark and Bermondsey (Simon Hughes) mentioned that the youngest candidate at the previous election was a Liberal Democrat. At the one before that, in 2001, I was

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one of the youngest candidates in the country. I found it an incredibly valuable and interesting experience. We should encourage young people, not just to tell us their views, but to get involved and be part of the system. That must be the way forward.

Many hon. Members have signed early-day motion 1218 on the 2009 Project. There is an excellent website associated with that: www.the2009project.com. It aims to get young people—it extends the definition to everyone who will be under 35 at the next election—to sign up to pledge that they will vote. Irrespective of who they vote for, the aim is to get them to pledge that they will vote and use their voice. As has been mentioned, young people care about many issues—anti-bullying was one that came up and, recently, issues about the minimum wage were raised. It took a long time for 16 and 17-year-olds to be enfranchised within that. Tuition fees affect younger people in particular. If the voice of young people is not heard at the voting booth, those issues are less likely to be taken seriously in this House. Apparently, 13 million under-35s will be eligible to vote at the next general election. Politicians should be taking account of that huge number of voters. I hope that hon. Members have used that opportunity to encourage young people in their constituencies to sign up to vote.

The issues about how young people vote are also important. I remember the first time I was able to vote. Very frustratingly, I could not vote in the 1997 election, although by a cruel accident of birth many of my best friends were able to do so—they were several months older than me. I restricted myself to lobbying them and trying to convince them to vote Liberal Democrat.

My first vote was in council elections, when I was a student living in Southwark and studying in London. I was keen to vote as I was interested in politics. I received my polling card and it mentioned a certain primary school. I had been living in London for eight months and I had no idea where it was. As I was walking out of the halls of residence to try to work out where to go, my hon. Friend the Member for North Southwark and Bermondsey came up—

Simon Hughes : I did not pay my hon. Friend to say this.

Jo Swinson : I do not think that I have shared this story with my hon. Friend. He might not remember the occasion, because I was just some student in Butlers Wharf hall of residence. He said, "Get into my car and I will give you a lift to the polling station". I said to myself, "Fine, that's great". The polling station was about 200 m away; it was so close to where I had been living for eight months yet I had no idea where it was. Students move into their halls of residence and work out how to get to their university classes and where the nearest bar is. Other than doing that, they might not be very integrated into their local community. That is a big problem, because if it is not easy for people to work out where to go to vote, they are far less likely to do so.

I got back from the polling station, got a sheet of A4 paper and, using a marker pen, drew a little map that said, "You are here. Go there, turn right, and take the second on the left. There is the polling station. Voting is today". I stuck it by the entrance to the hall of residence. According to the marked registers for that year, many

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more of the students voted. Simple things such as that can make a difference. It is about both ensuring that people are on the register and that the polling stations are accessible. For halls of residence in particular, how difficult would it be for the local authority to issue a map with the polling card?

Simon Hughes : Have a ballot box in halls of residence.

Jo Swinson : Indeed, there could be a ballot box in halls of residence or in universities.

We need to examine such barriers. I agree with many of the comments about voting at 16. In response to the proposition made by the hon. Member for Tooting (Mr. Khan), it is not the be all and end all. It is not the only thing to do. It will not be the magic solution, but it is part of it because it is part of ensuring that people can participate. While people need their parents' consent to get married at 16 in England and Wales, if people are really determined they can pop across the border to Gretna where that is not required. That gives another reason why people should be able to cast their vote at 16.

On a slightly controversial note, I welcome candidacy at 18, which is coming forward, but I would go one step further. I hope that if the issue of voting at 16 is reconsidered, we will also reconsider the age of candidacy and perhaps it could also be lowered to 16. It makes sense to have the age of candidacy the same as the age at which people can cast their vote. I have heard people say, "This would be dreadful. We would have 16-year-old MPs." Frankly, as someone once said, "If you are good enough, you are old enough." Anyone who gets elected has had to convince a constituency that they are the right person for the job.

People look at this House and they do not see it as being representative. Currently, people can stand for Parliament at 21 and, as I mentioned, I did so. It is uncommon for people to win at their first attempt. As a result, while the age at which people can stand for Parliament is 21, we do not have any 21-year-old MPs, nor have we had since Bernadette Devlin was elected back in the 1960s. There is no guarantee that there will be MPs of the age at which people can stand for Parliament. Despite the fact that about 40 per cent. of the population is under 30, only two out of 646 Members in this House are under 30. That is not good enough in terms of representing this country.

I would go further. Much as people might turn to me, as the youngest MP, to be the voice for youth, I do not necessarily have my finger on the pulse. I could not tell people what was No. 1 in the charts.

Simon Hughes : It changed last week.

Jo Swinson : My hon. Friend is clearly more on the ball than I am.

I think the hon. Member for Hastings and Rye (Michael Jabez Foster) made the point that the range of life experiences is important. Even as the youngest MP, I went to university before tuition fees came in, so I do not know what it is like to have to handle the additional burden of tuition fees and top-up fees. We should ensure that such experiences are represented in the House. Many other issues are also not being represented.

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We need more young MPs. We all have a responsibility to encourage young people to stand for Parliament, much as there are advantages to the current system. I do not think I need any anti-wrinkle cream because if the good people of East Dunbartonshire continue to return me as their MP, by current standards I will be a young MP for the next 15 years. We have all heard the descriptions of somebody being a young MP at 40, which in any other walk of life would be approaching middle age.

Finally, for as long as people turn on the television, look at the House of Commons Chamber and see something totally unrepresentative of our society, be it in terms of age, gender, disability or the colour of people's skin, we will not manage to solve the problem of better participation. Addressing that must be a key part of the solution. Young people are passionate about political issues and we all have a responsibility to nurture their enthusiasm and open the doors for their participation.

Mr. Edward O'Hara (in the Chair): Before I call the next speaker, I should say that it is desirable for reasons of equity that the Conservative Front-Bench spokesperson has the same length of time in which to speak as the Liberal Democrat. By my calculations, that means that she must be called not later than 4.58 pm.

4.20 pm

Mrs. Sharon Hodgson (Gateshead, East and Washington, West) (Lab): It is a great privilege to be able to speak on young people's participation in democracy. There are a number of reasons why it is so difficult to engage young people in the democratic process, but I do not believe that apathy is one of them.

In a recent survey, nine out of 10 young people identified three or more of what could be considered political issues that really mattered