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Michael Fabricant (Lichfield) (Con):
This is a rather belated intervention, but as my hon. Friend mentioned "Yesterday in Parliament", he may like to know that I have received an e-mail from the BBC that says that an Evening Standard diary column that claimed that the programme was to be scrapped was "completely
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untrue" and that it would continue in perpetuity. The last two words are my own, but nevertheless my hon. Friend will understand my gist.
Mr. Greenway: I am grateful for my hon. Friend's piece of news. Someone suggested to me once that the reason why Members of Parliament like to hear "Yesterday in Parliament" is that we all like the sound of our own voices, which reminds me that having spoken for 14 minutes—I know I have taken a few interventions—I should try to bring my remarks to a conclusion in two or three minutes.
We all need to study the Green Paper carefully. I cannot tell the Secretary of State that I have read it from cover to cover, and I suspect that very few colleagues have yet had the chance to do that. There are issues of governance on which we will have views. I agree again with the right hon. Member for Manchester, Gorton on the need for a role for the National Audit Office, for which my hon. Friend the Member for Maldon and East Chelmsford and I pressed in the Standing Committee on the Communications Bill. I am not yet clear to what extent the trust will differ from the board of governors, but I am prepared to be convinced.
I shall say a few words about independent production. During the proceedings on the Ofcom Bill, I was astonished at the strength of feeling against the BBC from some independent producers, to the point where some of them flatly refused to work with the BBC. We got the impression that the 25 per cent. target was a glass ceiling that some folk in the BBC would like to see lowered. My hon. Friend and I came to the conclusion that there probably ought not to be a limit at all, and that the BBC should be encouraged to commission significantly more than 25 per cent. of its output from independent producers. Some of the people now working in independent production companies are responsible for innovation and the development of new talent and new ideas, whereas when we had just the BBC and ITV, and there were no other opportunities, everything was done in-house.
My final comment to the Secretary of State is that in the north we believe we have one of the great centres of excellence in television production in Yorkshire, in the area of the right hon. Member for Manchester, Gorton. It is too early to say whether the "outside the M25" definition that was in the Communications Bill is working entirely satisfactorily, but I hope that it is. I want to encourage as much production as possible to take place away from London for the simple reason that the BBC and commercial television generally, by sponsoring arts, educational programmes and a range of other activities, bring a great deal to our cultural life. Those of us who represent constituencies away from London hugely value it. We should not just preserve it, but seek to enhance it.
1.33 pm
Kevin Brennan (Cardiff, West) (Lab): I draw the attention of the House to my declaration in the Register of Members' Interests.
I welcome the Green Paper, particularly the proposed continuation of the licence fee, which is the bedrock of funding for the BBC into the future, even with the
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radical changes taking place in the broadcasting sector. However, in the course of my remarks I shall express a couple of reservations, at the outset by echoing the remarks of my right hon. Friend the Member for Manchester, Gorton (Sir Gerald Kaufman) about top-slicing and adding my concern about whether that will prove to be a sensible way to preserve public service broadcasting outside the walls of the BBC. I shall also say a little about the governance of the BBC, with particular reference to Wales.
Those who are excessively and, perhaps, obsessively critical of the BBC sometimes seem to follow the maxim that it is all very well in practice, but it will never work in theory. The BBC is one of those institutions which, if we invented it from scratch now, would probably never get on to the statute book or receive a royal charter because of the unusual nature of its set-up and governance. Nevertheless, as an institution it has lasted, created standards of excellence and been a flagship for Britain abroad, and it is a hugely recognised British brand and a vital component of the creative industries in the UK—a sector that is becoming increasingly important. In a way it is true, as its critics point out, that in the solar system of broadcasting, the BBC is like a giant gas planet containing many inefficiencies, but still exerting a powerful gravitational pull on standards and making the broadcasting and media universe a much better one than it would be if there were a black hole where the BBC once was.
I come now to BBC Wales, not least because its headquarters is in my constituency—Cardiff, West—and also because of its huge importance in Wales culturally, economically and to the community in Wales. Sometimes the creative industries are not taken seriously by economists. It is only a few years since people involved in economics, which I used to teach, were staggered, puzzled and bemused by the revelation that ABBA was Sweden's most important export industry. Traditional industrial economists could not get their heads round that. It is still true that economists do not recognise the creative industries as an extremely powerful way of growing the economy and as an expanding sector which aims to get value, wealth, income and jobs by creating intellectual property. The sector will become an increasingly important part of the economy, based as it is around high-tech industries.
More than 1,300 people are employed directly by BBC Wales. Many of them live in and around Cardiff, and many of those in my constituency. In addition, it has been estimated that there is a high multiplier effect in the Welsh economy, with a further 1,000 jobs indirectly attributed to the presence of BBC Wales. Its reputation for excellence is continually enhanced, as it was last night with the launch of the new series of "Dr Who", which took place in Cardiff, complete with Daleks on view. I understand that there will be a further showing in London next week for Members of Parliament who would like to see the next episode of the new series. [Interruption.] There are several showings going on, as the hon. Member for Lichfield (Michael Fabricant) points out.
Despite the important economic impact of the BBC in Wales and the recent announcements, the BBC's economic impact has traditionally been far too centralised. For an institution that is supposed to represent the whole of Great Britain and Northern
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Ireland, its economic impact is still overwhelmingly felt in London and the London region. Until recently, 80 per cent. of the BBC's overall budget was spent in London and two thirds of its employees were employed there. That is why I welcome the "outside the M25" strategy. I welcome the fact that Manchester is to become an increasingly important part of trying to get the BBC outside the M25. I appeal for Cardiff, the rest of Wales and the other nations and regions of the UK to be at the forefront of the BBC's thinking about its economic and cultural impact in the UK.
On the cultural impact of the BBC, with particular reference to Wales, it is no exaggeration to say that the image of Wales and of the devolution project has been massively influenced by the presence and role of BBC Wales in Welsh life. BBC Wales broadcasts excellent sports coverage, although I do not agree with the hon. Member for Ryedale (Mr. Greenway) that the BBC is always the best at broadcasting sport, because Sky's coverage of football and Channel 4's coverage of cricket are innovative and have raised standards elsewhere. We need competition and cannot have a single monolithic broadcaster of sport. Nevertheless, sports broadcasts have a huge impact in Wales, as do broadcasts of other aspects of Welsh cultural life, such as the recent opening of the Wales millennium centre.
BBC Wales has played a crucial role in reaching out to the community through various innovative projects, which other parts of the BBC could seek to follow, such as the digital story-telling project, the "Where I live" websites and the community studios, which the BBC has opened around Wales in recognising that over-centralisation can even occur within a nation or region of the UK.
I am concerned about the future governance of the BBC, which might insufficiently take into account the new devolved Britain and the interests of the nations and regions following the Green Paper. Some resources have been devolved, but it is important that the devolution of power accompanies the devolution of resources, because the devolution of resources without the devolution of decision making might lead to an increasingly centralised BBC in terms of management and governance that sends down diktats from London to Cardiff, Manchester, Edinburgh and other parts of the UK.
When the new slimmer BBC board was set up, it was misguided to remove explicit representation of the nations and regions. Although the new Green Paper contains words of comfort about the structure of the trust, on which the nations of the UK are likely to be represented, it is not good enough to appoint someone and say, "Because they are from Wales, they represent Wales on the new trust." The trust should contain specific representation, and it is vital that a position representing the nations and regions is reinstituted when the new board is created.
When future decisions that directly impact on, for example, BBC Wales are taken on BBC finances and resources, there is a danger that there will be no direct input on behalf of the nations and regions. If the nations and regions do not have a voice on the board, their views will not be made clear and the newly restructured BBC might become dislocated from the devolved reality of modern Britain. I hope that that point will be taken into account in considering issues such as the finances and
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personnel functions of BBC Wales, because there is a danger that BBC Wales management will no longer be free to manage resources in the newly devolved world.
Overall, the Green Paper is welcome, and a period of stability is required. I count myself as a friend of the BBC and hope that it will be a flagship in 10 years' time, when the matter next comes up for review.
1.44 pm
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