Second Standing Committee on Delegated Legislation
Thursday 13 May 2004
[Mr. Bill Olner in the Chair]
Northern Ireland Act 1998 and Northern Ireland Act 2000 (Modification) Order 2004
2.30 pm
The Minister of State, Northern Ireland Office (Mr. John Spellar): I beg to move,
That the Committee has considered the Northern Ireland Act (Modification) Order 2004 (S.I. 2004, No. 1164).
The Chairman: With this we may take the direction given by the Secretary of State under section 51B(2) of the Northern Ireland Act 1998 on 28 April 2004.
Mr. Desmond Swayne (New Forest, West) (Con): On a point of order, Mr. Olner. May I draw to your attention the fact that the Organised Crime Task Force published, on Tuesday, a report that I estimate to be material to the consideration of the order by the Committee, and that although I tried to get the document on Tuesday it did not become available in the Vote Office until 12 o'clock today? Is there anything that you can do from the Chair to ensure that while Northern Ireland continues to be governed from the Committee Corridor, when documents are published in Belfast they are made available to hon. Members in this place as soon as possible?
The Chairman: That is not a point of order for the Chair, but I am sure that the Minister has heard the hon. Gentleman's comment and will take appropriate action.
Mr. Spellar: I thank the hon. Member for New Forest, West (Mr. Swayne) for giving me notice of the point that he was going to make. I have checked, and I found that the reports were received from Belfast at 11 o'clock this morning and immediately brought to the Vote Office. However, I take on board the point that he made, and I will consider how we can improve and expedite matters.
I shall be brief, or at least rapid. The order and direction were laid before the House on 20 and 28 April, respectively. They were made in the light of the first report of the independent monitoring commission, which was laid before the House on 20 April. The order empowers the Secretary of State to take action in respect of pay and financial assistance for parties in the Assembly, if certain prior conditions are met.
The direction stops the payment of financial assistance to two parties—Sinn Fein and the Progressive Unionist party—for a period of 12 months.
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Mr. Andrew Robathan (Blaby) (Con): The Minister knows that I support the measure entirely. He is an intelligent man; does he see a discrepancy between it and the continuation of allowances to Sinn Fein Members at Westminster?
The Chairman: I advise the Minister that we are not discussing that point.
Mr. Spellar: I will certainly come on to that point, Mr. Olner, and I point out to the hon. Gentleman that we are implementing the recommendations that were made by the Independent Monitoring Commission, once it was set up and had completed its evaluation.
Mr. Swayne: The Minister will recall that the IMC recommendation that payments should stop related to party allowances and/or salaries. Will the Minister tell us why he chose one rather than both, and why he chose the one that he did?
Mr. Spellar: Yes. I shall come on to that shortly.
Lembit Öpik (Montgomeryshire) (LD): I apologise, first, because owing to what is happening in the Chamber this afternoon with reference to the Army, I shall not be able to stay for the whole discussion. Does the Minister accept that those of us who supported the provision of facilities here to, for example, Sinn Fein can still support the measure that we are considering today, because, as has been said, they are two different matters? Does he accept that what is being done is a logical consequence of the many warnings that have already been given to those organisations, adding teeth to threats that have been made?
Mr. Spellar: I hope to deal with action that we are taking now, and action that we may take in future, during my speech. The hon. Gentleman is right that those are separable. The key element, however, is that the IMC has made a recommendation. The provision of facilities here was not included in that recommendation—who knows what the commission will propose in future? I hope that the hon. Gentleman will be able to participate in most of the proceedings, but that depends on how quickly we are able to make progress.
Mr. Hugo Swire (East Devon) (Con): Can the Minister inform the Committee of the implications for pensions during the period of suspension? Can he guarantee that they will not be made up at a later date?
Mr. Spellar: Under the current regulations, the moneys concerned are going to political parties and individual pensions are therefore not affected. Were we to follow the advice tendered by the hon. Member for Blaby (Mr. Robathan), the question of pensions would consequentially become an element. However, it is not an element of the matters that we are considering under the order.
The Secretary of State laid the IMC's first report on the incidence of paramilitary activity before Parliament on 20 April. The commission found that paramilitary activity was still at a disturbingly high level and that in its view two parties represented in the Assembly, Sinn Fein and the Progressive Unionist
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party, have links with paramilitary groups. The commission made a number of recommendations that were endorsed by both the British and Irish Governments. In particular, the commission recommended that the Secretary of State should
''consider taking action in respect of the salary of Assembly members and/or the funding of Assembly parties so as to impose an appropriate financial measure in respect of Sinn Fein and the Progressive Unionist Party.''
The Secretary of State decided that it would be right to remove Sinn Fein and the PUP's entitlement to financial assistance, payable in accordance with the financial assistance for political parties scheme 2002 under the Financial Assistance for Political Parties Act (Northern Ireland) 2000, for one year.
The modification order before the Committee has been made to facilitate that measure. As hon. Members may recall, the Northern Ireland (Monitoring Commission etc.) Act 2003 amended the Northern Ireland Act 1998 to broaden the range of measures that the Assembly might take, by cross-community vote, against parties or individual Members of the Legislative Assembly on the grounds that they were not committed to non-violence and exclusively peaceful and democratic means. The Assembly could also pass a resolution in relation to an individual who had failed to observe any other terms of the pledge of office or a party that was not committed to its members observing other terms of the pledge of office. Such steps included the option to reduce in whole or in part the levels of MLA salary and financial assistance to parties for a specified period.
The monitoring commission legislation also inserted provisions into the 1998 Act that allowed the Secretary of State to take similar measures by direction if certain prior conditions had been satisfied. Those conditions were that the IMC should have made a recommendation about steps that the Assembly might consider taking, that an Assembly resolution was required to take those steps and that the resolution had failed to attract cross-community support. As with the Assembly, the Secretary of State would need to be satisfied that either the individual or party concerned was not committed to non-violence and exclusively peaceful and democratic means, or that they were failing to observe the terms of the pledge of office.
Mr. Robathan: This is a serious question. Did we, or the Government, really need the IMC to tell us that Sinn Fein is not committed solely to peaceful and democratic means?
Mr. Spellar: I am slightly surprised that the hon. Gentleman should be opposed to the setting up of a body of eminent national and international individuals who have pooled together evidence, not only from the United Kingdom but from other jurisdictions, about criminal activities by paramilitary groups. They have provided a objective and impartial assessment, which stands up well in the international arena, in order to outline clearly to the whole world the activities of those bodies and also to enable actions to be taken with international support. That is extremely desirable and a measure that I hoped would be welcomed by the hon. Gentleman.
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Mr. Robathan: I welcome it. Did the Minister see former assistant commissioner Grieve, who is on the IMC, on the television? He said that even the dogs on the street know that Sinn Fein is involved in paramilitary violence. Did we really need the IMC to tell us?
Mr. Spellar: Sometimes it is better to rely on a formal body, rather than the dogs on the street, when one is bringing evidence before a Committee to justify legislative action.
As the process involves proceedings in the Assembly, it can apply only during devolution, and not when the devolved institutions are suspended, as at present. Some adjustment is therefore necessary to give effect to the IMC's recommendation. The modification order was made on 20 April and amends the 1998 Act to remove the condition that there must be an Assembly debate and resolution prior to the Secretary of State exercising the power.
After the order was made, Sinn Fein and the PUP were given seven days to make representations to the Government. When that period ended, my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State concluded that he should take steps in respect of the financial assistance payable to them in line with the IMC's recommendation. The direction made on 28 April provides that financial assistance shall not be payable to Sinn Fein or the PUP from April 2004 to April 2005.
2.40 pm
Sitting suspended for a Division in the House.
2.55 pm
On resuming—
Mr. Spellar: As I was saying earlier on this ''dogs in the street'' order, the Secretary of State has said that he will reconsider the matter in the context of the next IMC report, which is expected in about six months. It is obviously a matter of great concern that parties represented in the Assembly continue to have links to ongoing paramilitary activity. The Government are firmly committed to political progress in Northern Ireland and the restoration of the devolved institutions, but that requires a genuine commitment from all parties to exclusively peaceful and democratic means. We therefore strongly condemn the continuing paramilitary activity described in the IMC report.
In saying that, I am ready to acknowledge the great contribution made by people in both those parties to the cause of peaceful and democratic politics over the years. Northern Ireland is a fundamentally better place for their efforts. However, the movements with which those parties are associated are revealed in the report still to be involved in activity that is not exclusively peaceful and democratic. We cannot blind ourselves to that fact.
Our purpose remains to get the Northern Ireland institutions back up and running. We remain of the belief that the best way to achieve that is through dialogue. The review of the operation of the Belfast agreement has continued in recent weeks. There will now be a break in formal activity, during the European
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election campaign. We shall continue to talk to the parties about how the central issue of an end to paramilitarism can be resolved and the stability of the institutions guaranteed. Formal review activity will resume, and we hope to engage in a period of more intensive political dialogue after the European elections.
I understand the strength of feeling that the issue has aroused in all parts of the House. The fact that we are imposing the measures, as well as the substance of them, demonstrate clearly the unacceptability of the conduct revealed in the report and put down an important marker. I very much hope that the IMC does not have occasion to report adversely in future, but if it does, there will obviously have to be close consideration of further steps. In the mean time, I hope that the modification to the law that we have made and our action in implementing the IMC's recommendation will be generally welcomed.
2.57 pm
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