Present: Rt Hon Michael J Martin MP, Speaker, in the chair; Gwyneth Dunwoody MP, Chairman of the Transport, Local Government and the Regions Committee; Rt Hon Nick Raynsford MP, Minister for Local Government; Rt Hon A. J. Beith MP; Mrs Angela Browning MP; Humfrey Malins MP; Peter Viggers MP. (Apologies received from: Rt Hon Gerald Kaufman MP.)

1 Conduct of Meetings: it was agreed that, in future, meetings would start with a private session before the Chairman and Chief Executive were invited to attend. The Committee would question them on the corporate plan, Estimates and other documents, but invite them to withdraw before any decisions were taken.

It was agreed that the proposed budget increase of 50% was unusual and would require careful scrutiny if it was to be recommended to the House.

The Speaker reported on the latest state of play on the Commission's thinking on whether select committee and parliamentary conference travel and BAA car passes should be treated as political donations.

[At this point, Sam Younger, Chairman, and Roger Creedon, Chief Executive, Electoral Commission, were invited to join the meeting]

2  Electoral Commission's five year plan 2002-03 to 2006-07: the Committee considered the revised five year plan. The Chairman and Chief Executive responded to the following questions:

Why have the aims been revised since the last five year plan? Is the Commission being over-ambitious?

Mr Younger said that the changes to the Commission's aims had been made in the light of experience over the first year and were minor adjustments. The Commission was aware of the need to "avoid self-inflicted challenges" but the expectations of its stakeholders meant there was pressure to tackle many issues at the same time. This applied especially to reviewing electoral law and improving voter awareness. Other areas involved uncertainties such as planning for referendums, the merger with the Local Government Commission for England, assuming the order-making responsibilities from the Department of Transport, Local Government and the Regions and the regulatory tasks, where the Commission had not yet had to handle serious complaints or investigations.

When does the Commission expect to undertake the strategic analysis cited in para 3.1?

The Commission had been in a reactive mode up to and after the 2001 general election and lacked sufficient staff for a comprehensive strategic analysis. The post of Director of Strategy and Planning had recently been advertised and work would proceed in this area. A longer-term view of the Commission's strategy would not necessarily produce results different to those set out in the corporate plan.

Of the challenges listed in para 3.7, which ones are the biggest, and which the most urgent? What are the weaknesses and threats?

The first three - ensuring compliance, reviewing electoral law and promoting awareness - were the most important and urgent. Voter awareness posed the greatest challenge, but the Commission had to be realistic about what it could achieve and accept that part of this task was for the political parties. Electoral law did need to be reviewed and the Commission's compliance role was beginning to throw up detailed issues. Stakeholder relationships were a strength, but the Commission was conscious of the load being put on election administrators. The Boundary Committee's periodic reviews and the role of the Commission in order-making was a potential area of concern because of the tension between the two roles.

What is the state of play on each of the 'success factors' listed in para 3.8?

The issue whether it was a political donation for employers to give local councillors time off for council business needed to be tackled as soon as possible. Other issues might require legislative change but were less urgent. The Chairman was fairly confident about the staffing of the Commission, though it remained worryingly dependent on a small number of people. There was a healthy application rate for vacancies with good quality candidates, but it was not always possible to fill posts within the necessary timescale. Information technology was a major challenge. While the initial systems had been adequate for the immediate tasks, new systems were needed for the full range of the Commission's responsibilities. The Commission did not underestimate the accounting requirements on political parties and were trying to make the operation of them as simple as possible. Referendums planning was in its early stages but progress in this area was now urgent.

Which of the policy reviews set out in Table 2A have greatest urgency in the Commission's view?

The most urgent were the reviews on absent voting, funding and registrations followed by the issue of a donations cap and best practice for election administrators.

What are the costs involved in the merger with the Local Government Commission for England?

There would be costs associated with disposing of the lease on the LGCE's present accommodation. Most of the staff costs were included in past plans, but there would be some redundancy and some of the LGCE activities had not been fully funded. For instance, more resources were need for mapping local authority boundaries. Overall there was some £600,000 of one-off costs that would not be repeated in subsequent years.

What lessons were learned from last autumn's voter registration campaign about communicating with young people and ethnic minorities? How effective was the campaign?

There had been a positive feedback in the post-campaign research on people who recalled seeing the advertisements, but it was not possible to measure how this translated into increasing voter registration or turnout at elections. Improved mechanisms for assessing the effect of such publicity campaigns would have to be sought in future.

TV advertising and posters are clearly one way of communicating with young people, but what assessment have you made of the effectiveness of radio and Internet advertising to reach that age group?

The registration campaign for local elections was using posters, radio and Internet advertising. The current recession in television advertising meant that more advertising could be purchased in that medium on favourable terms and the provision of additional funds for Section 13 spending would enable television to be used.

Could the Commission be making more effective use of web technology. Could more be done electronically? What is the purpose of "briefing papers for elected politicians on current policy issues" mentioned on page 22 at point 3.4?

In the early days of the Commission, the priority for the website had been the registration of parties and donations. A more inter-active website was planned for the longer term. The Commission felt it should do more to keep MPs and other elected politicians aware of issues such as the experience learned from the recent mayoral referendums.

What is the current state of play on the opting out clause in registration? Will rolling registration be affected?

The Robertson judgment had led the Commission to advise electoral registration officers (EROs) not to sell the register to commercial organisations for the time being. There were conflicting interests at stake, which the DTLR was currently considering. Rolling registration should not be affected, but the autumn canvass is expected to be covered by new regulations which would provide for an "opt-out".

In para 7.5 of the Corporate Plan, the Commission seems to envisage seeking additional powers or changes to the PPER Act to ensure referendums can be conducted properly. What do they have in mind?

The PPER Act does not specify what powers the Chairman, as Chief Counting Officer, should have. This and a number of other areas would need to be clarified. Planning was going ahead so the Commission and election officers were ready if and when a national or regional referendum was called, but the Commission was aware that this could happen at relatively short notice.

A national referendum would require both enabling legislation and a supplementary estimate. Do you have any broad idea of what that extra cost would be? Could the Commission cope if a snap Euro referendum were called this year?

The Commission had no estimate of the likely cost involved, but would attempt to draw up some estimates by comparing the costs of elections and other referendums. If a snap Euro referendum was called that year, the Commission would simply have to cope, but would not be fully prepared.

On planning for referendums, how do you judge what is a 'soundly-based' project plan in Aim 4 of Table A?

The test would be whether the Commission's plan seemed credible to election administrators and the political parties.

Why has it taken so long to get approval for the policy development grant scheme? How will it work? How will the cake be divided between the parties?

Consultation with the parties had not produced a consensus, particularly in balancing the interests of the five smaller parties against the three national ones. A draft order setting out how the scheme would operate had now been laid and would come into effect before the end of the financial year. Parties can then submit claims.

Why was the Commission conducting a rebranding exercise and what was the cost?

The Commission needed to do so after a year in operation, when the perceptions of the Commission were a good deal clearer, as was its strategic positioning, and in the light of the LGCE merger. The total cost was about £68,000 already provided in the 2001-2 budget.

[Mr Younger and Mr Creedon withdrew from the meeting].

The Committee approved the five year plan 2002-03 to 2006-7 for the Commission to publish and for Mr Speaker to lay before the House.

3  Estimate for 2002-03: the Committee took note of the National Audit Office's paper on value for money in 2000-01 and a letter received at the start of the meeting from the Chief Secretary to the Treasury. In discussion, the following points were made.

a.  the ceiling on expenditure on voter awareness under section 13 of the PPER Act would be raised by Treasury and DTLR ministers to £7.5 million but would be expected to remain at that level not just for the next year but in the long term

b.  the Commission had many new responsibilities and required sufficient resources to discharge them

c.  there was a risk of the Commission taking on too much and that some of its activities might be hard to justify in the long term

d.  voter awareness was a major budget item but not necessarily the top priority for the Commission. The results of expenditure on this item would have to be monitored carefully, but it would be difficult to measure them accurately. The Committee would want to review expenditure under this head in future years

e.  one-off expenditure for the merger with the LGCE in 2002-03 should be authorised but should not re-appear in the budget for future years

The Committee approved the Estimate, on condition that the ceiling on voter awareness

spending would remain in place for some years and that the one-off item on the LGCE

merger would not re-appear in the Estimate in future years.