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Waste Management
DEPARTMENT FOR ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS
[Relevant documents: Eighth Report from the Environment, Food and Rural Affairs Committee, Session 2002–03, on The Future of Waste Management, HC 385-I, and Fifth Report from the Environmental Audit Committee, Session 2002–03, on Waste—An Audit, HC 99-I; and the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs Annual Report for 2003, Cm 5919.]
Motion made, and Question proposed,
- That further resources, not exceeding £1,386,358,000, be authorised for use for the year ending on 31st March 2004, and that a further sum, not exceeding £1,456,729,000, be granted to Her Majesty out of the Consolidated Fund for the year ending on 31st March 2004 for expenditure by the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs.—[Joan Ryan.]
4.16 pm
Paddy Tipping (Sherwood): I begin by mentioning absent friends. The right hon. Member for Skipton and Ripon (Mr. Curry), the Chairman of the Select Committee on Environment, Food and Rural Affairs, is preparing for an important and joyous occasion. My right hon. Friend the Member for Oldham, West and Royton (Mr. Meacher) is now—unfortunately—spending a little more time with his family. He would have been a persuasive respondent to the debate. In the past six years, he has been a strong advocate not only on waste issues but on general environment matters. Those who have seen him in the Chamber in the past couple of days know that he will not neglect those causes.
I am delighted that my hon. Friend the Minister for the Environment will reply to the debate. He has received a long awaited and well deserved promotion. Given his history, I know that he will take a keen political interest in waste.
Mr. James Gray (North Wiltshire): I offer hon. Members apologies for the absence of my hon. Friend the Member for Orpington (Mr. Horam), the Chairman of the Environmental Audit Committee, who is unable to be present today.
Paddy Tipping: I am sure that hon. Members understand the importance of waste management. Both the Environment, Food and Rural Affairs Committee and the Environmental Audit Committee noted that, in the past, reports have been written but no action has been taken on them. We have reached a point when delivery is vital. I note the Secretary of State's comments on that. I also take note of the waste summit and I am delighted about the strategy report, "Waste Not, Want Not".
The important point is not that we have a problem but its scale. We must consider the policy instruments to resolve it and the timetable for doing that. Both Committees independently describe the Government's performance as "timid". We have not made sufficient progress.
Yesterday, several hon. Members had the opportunity to talk to the permanent secretary at the Department of the Environment, Food and Rural Affairs. He described the recycling and composting
targets as "very challenging". He is always a diplomat, and we could not draw him on whether the target of 17 per cent. would be met next year. I got the impression not only that the target was challenging but that the answer was probably no. We need to make progress and analyse the problems.In a sense, the problems can be categorised in two types, involving, first, a set of institutional issues and, secondly, a set of issues around policy instruments. I shall first deal with the institutional issues. It is clear that, although DEFRA is the lead Department on this matter, other Departments are involved. The Department of Trade and Industry deals with planning matters, the Office of the Deputy Prime Minister encompasses local government, and the Treasury plays an important role—perhaps a prime role—in setting taxation. The Government are of the view that there clearly needs to be greater co-ordination between the Departments, and they are considering, through the Cabinet Office, whether that can be achieved. That ought to be a prime aim.
Mr. Peter Ainsworth (East Surrey): I am aware that the Cabinet Office is reviewing the situation, but the hon. Gentleman might wish to know that, when the Secretary of State came before the Environmental Audit Committee on 12 February, she dismissed the idea of consolidating responsibility under one Department. The Government therefore seem to be in some disarray over this issue.
Paddy Tipping: It may well be the case that the idea of consolidation has been dismissed. What the Select Committee is advocating, however, is better co-ordination. We shall need to look at what the Cabinet Office has to say. There are different models for achieving this, but what unites everyone is the fact that the present situation is simply not satisfactory, and that we ought to achieve something better. We also need to look to the Department, because one of the things that came out of our inquiry was that the division between policy and delivery—a lively issue in DEFRA at the moment, in the light of the Haskins review—is not at all clear. The Environment Agency has a regulatory facility—that is its prime task—but it is apparent that at times it is giving policy advice to DEFRA. I suspect that that reflects a lack of resources in the Department.
A further institutional issue relates to EU legislation. Most of our environmental legislation now comes from the EU, and I have to say that, as a Government and as a Parliament, we do not handle this well. It is a straightforward fact that officials from the UK Government are well regarded in the EU, but our problem is that we do not get involved in discussing draft proposals at an early enough date. We certainly do not consider the consequence of regulations in enough detail. When it comes to our own House, I have to say that the way in which we examine European proposals is woefully inadequate. More legislation will come from the EU, and we must improve our act.
It is important to recognise that the Department does not itself dispose of waste. It is reliant on other partners, both in the private sector and in local authorities in the public sector. We need a stronger, more effective partnership between those bodies. I think that it is fair to say that DEFRA has a long way to go in terms of
building relationships with the private sector. The Department has a particular genesis, in that it is used to working with the farming community, and its approach to partners needs to be examined in some detail. This is highlighted by the notion of a hazardous waste forum, which was long advocated by the private sector but resisted by the Department until the very end, when it eventually realised that it was necessary. There is real expertise in the private sector, and the Department needs to examine ways of handling that expertise, and of communicating far more thoroughly.
Mr. Barry Sheerman (Huddersfield): Is it not about time that the Government took seriously the concentration of highly skilled people in the Department who know about the waste sector? Is it not a problem that, wherever we look outside the private sector, we see people who do not stay in post long enough to learn how to handle the job, and who are then moved on? This is true of DEFRA and of the Environment Agency. Waste management has been the Cinderella for too long.
Paddy Tipping: It is fair to say that the Department needs to consider the skills that it has, reinforce them and take people forward. We need to reflect on the fact that the Department is relatively youthful—it is two years old—but my hon. Friend is exactly right that we need to ensure that those of the right experience do particular jobs for a prolonged period. There are certainly issues here.
The private sector will invest if there is a clear view of the future. Regulation needs to be clear before investment takes place. I remark on the fact that we are four years on from the landfill directive, and it is still not clear what material is to be counted as hazardous waste or whether the new standards will be introduced in 2004 or 2005. What signals does that send to the private sector, which wants to invest? Uncertainty will delay the much needed investment in this area.
Local authorities, of course, are another partner. There are excellent examples of good practice in local authorities, but a shortcoming of the Government and of us all is that we do not focus on good practice enough, or promote and praise it. There is excellent practice about, but there is poor practice as well, so we must work hard to bring the worst up to the best.
During our inquiry, we were told that, of course, money is not a problem as there is plenty available for local authority waste management functions. Local authorities have a structural problem too, as many areas such as shire counties have a collection authority and a disposal authority. We must look closely at joint planning and a more unified voice for the public sector. It is important that local authorities have the tools to deliver the tasks, but the Committee is not convinced that allocation through revenue support grant makes sufficient money available.
One needs to consider the money that goes into local authorities for waste management processes through the environmental protection and cultural services block.
There is a lack of transparency here, and no one really knows how much money each local authority is being allocated.
Norman Baker (Lewes): I agree with the hon. Gentleman's analysis, but is not the situation even worse? Local authorities, perversely, are still given an incentive to landfill and no incentive to recycle compared with landfill. On too many occasions, it is still cheaper to dispose of unwanted material to landfill than to recycle, and there is no market for the recycled material. Beyond that, there is no incentive for local authorities to minimise waste. The hierarchy is not being enforced through economic measures from the Treasury in respect of local authorities.
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