MONDAY 13 MARCH 2000

MR BRIAN BENDER, MR ALEX ALLAN, MR PETER BURKE AND MR STEFAN CZERNIAWSKI

  20. You keep saying that you are going to have to think about this and you are going to have to think about that. I am wondering whether you actually have thought about them at all so far?
  (Mr Bender) We have not yet resolved how to deal with a million a day, but we are thinking about it. The way the system should be used and we should ensure it develops is to enable people to get information from the Web from departments and then interact electronically. For example, in consultation mechanisms, we will gather the information from them. All of that must be for the positive, but there are risks and down sides that we need to think about, and we are thinking about.

  21. You came back to the old formula, "We need to think about", and then it is, "Are thinking about." What is being done so far?
  (Mr Allan) Within departments we are increasingly introducing proper electronic document managing systems so that, for example, we are not sending enormous great long e-mails all the way round, but we are referring to one copy of the document. There are various techniques like that that can help. In terms of handling e-mails from the public, one of the things that I think does require a slight change of attitude is that in many cases people expect more in response to a letter than they necessarily will to an e-mail. I think it is a change of culture in terms of explaining something that is quite quick and short and acknowledges it and, perhaps, refers somebody to published material on-line[2]. We are issuing guidelines on these sorts of matters about how we should handle e-mail, but I think Mr Bender is right in saying that there are still issues that we have not cracked.

  22. Coming onto, particularly, Social Security forms and new programmes, I know that in the Social Security Department, having been concerned in it a little bit myself in the last few years, there are a great many new IT programmes coming on-line at all times. To what extent are you, in considering new programmes for use within departments—particularly Social Security—thinking about the means of tying those in and making sure that they are properly compatible with whatever Internet user you are going to use? (Mr Allan) We have issued guidelines on data standards, which go down to the most basic, how many characters you should allow for name and address and so on, simply to make sure that as we move towards better integration across departments, different departments' systems can communicate with each other. That plays a part in both developing the existing systems and introducing new systems.

  23. Good afternoon gentlemen. Which of you has got the most professional experience of IT?
  (Mr Allan) Probably me, I should think.
  (Mr Bender) None of us are IT professionals.

  24. You, Mr Allan, were the High Commissioner to Australia before you were appointed to this job. What qualifications do you have for this job?
  (Mr Allan) Most of my career has actually been in the Treasury. I trained in maths and statistics. I took two years off from the Treasury and worked in the IT industry in the 1980s. I did a year in software consultancy and a year looking at telemetry. I have a certain experience.

  25. What is the statement of Government policy on this issue?
  (Mr Allan) The Government wants to see all government services accessible on-line. This does not mean that we are forcing everybody to access them on-line, but equally we will be looking at issues of take up. I think the key thing is to make sure that people who want to get government information and get access to government services on-line can do so.

  26. How has that changed as a name since 1995/1996?
  (Mr Allan) I think the whole technology has changed. In 1995/1996 there were very few transactions going on on the Internet in terms of e-commerce or activities like that. That has grown very fast. The idea of actually accessing services on-line is something that people have begun to realise more and more over the last few years is not only possible, but is what many people are going to expect in the future.

  27. I recall that back in 1995/1996 we were ahead of other governments in our development of central public access to the website?
  (Mr Allan) As the Chairman pointed out in one of his earlier questions, we were ahead in terms of producing websites for departments. No country then, I think, had made any significant progress towards actually delivering services on-line.

  28. This report seems to imply that we have not only made less progress, but that we have actually been overtaken by business and many other governments?
  (Mr Allan) I think it is fair to say that there are certainly some governments, in particularly one or two of the ones that the authors of the Report looked into, who have made more progress than us, Australia being one of them. We have now got a clear determination that we will catch up and that we will offer the sort of service that will make us one of the leading countries in the world for electronic services on-line.

  29. Given that we are half a decade on from initiation of this in the Government—and I heard Mr Bender say that he has not thought of tackling a million enquiries a day, American style—he also did say to the Chairman that we need to make sure that staff have the IT training. Why has this not been done already?
  (Mr Bender) I am sorry. I did not mean to give the impression that it was not being done. It is being done. We need to step up the effort on it, but we are giving staff IT training.

  30. What mechanisms do you have to ensure that present websites are being updated regularly?
  (Mr Bender) The central mechanism is the one that Mr Allan referred to earlier, that we are stepping up in the Cabinet Office and reporting through the Central IT Unit to Mr Allan, and a new media team that is going to be driving things forward.

  31. That does not answer my question.
  (Mr Bender) The answer is that we have established guidelines. This is something that is ultimately the responsibility of the departments. The new media team will be trying to oversee implementation of the guidelines.

  32. Do we already have guidelines?
  (Mr Bender) Yes, the website guidelines were issued before the end of the year.

  33. Prior to that there were no guidelines for updating websites?
  (Mr Allan) They certainly were not anything like so detailed. There may have been some shorter guidelines. These are quite extensive and go to the extent of saying exactly what should be on front pages and exactly what material should be on each website. They are certainly much more extensive.

  34. Can you give the Committee an example of which is the least up-dated website?
  (Mr Allan) I do not think I know the answer to that.

  35. Are there ones that are not up-dated regularly enough?
  (Mr Allan) I think all departments are up-dating them increasingly regularly now. There may well have been some, in the past, that were not. I do not have the latest information on when every department up-dates their website. The Department for Environment and Transport, for example, up-date it several times a day.

  36. Presumably you know which ones are at the other end, so tell us.
  (Mr Allan) I do not, I am afraid.
  (Mr Bender) If I may add, the purpose of setting up the new media team is to get hold of this information and ensure that departments do implement the guidelines.

  37. We have at our fingertips what is a good example but we do not have at our fingertips what is a very poor example?
  (Mr Bender) I could not give you a poor example.

  38. That is presumably why parts of the Report are so damp?
  (Mr Allan) We certainly see scope for improvement on all of this, which is why we are setting up this new media team.

  39. I am not sure whether the new team is part of the problem or part of the solution. I would have thought that the existing team is the one that should have taken full responsibility, given it has been a department priority in some form or another since 1995. What mechanisms do you have in place to ensure compliance by departments with present guidelines or is that going to take a new team?

  (Mr Allan) The guidelines that were set up were discussed with the departments, the departments all know what it is that they are supposed—