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9.42 pm
The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Mr. Keith Vaz): Debates that precede European Council meetings are excellent opportunities for hon. Members to express their views on the important decisions that lie ahead--in this case, at Helsinki next Friday. I join my right hon. Friend the Foreign Secretary in commending the way in which the Finnish Government have handled the presidency. It is a model for other countries.
Conservative Members' speeches on Europe were, as usual, like a box of Celebrations--colourful, but different. No one view was the same as another. It would be churlish of me not to thank the hon. Member for Stratford-on-Avon (Mr. Maples) for his kind comments on my appointment. He asked whether I would last longer than my predecessor, but I imagine that, with all the
speculation about the future role of the right hon. Member for Kensington and Chelsea (Mr. Portillo), it is probably the hon. Member for Stratford-on-Avon who should worry about job security.
No such worries affect the hon. Member for Tunbridge Wells (Mr. Norman). He seems already to have three jobs and is eyeing up another. Not content with being the shadow Minister for Europe, he has a golden handcuffs deal with Asda, is a putative Conservative candidate for mayor of London, and is the brains behind the reverse takeover of the month--that of a company named, appropriately, Nutsford. His various employments bring new meaning to the word "enlargement."
For reasons that the Foreign Secretary has made clear, the Helsinki Council will be a landmark Council. Enlargement will be the main business. We have heard a clear statement on the issue from the hon. Member for Stratford-on-Avon, the shadow Foreign Secretary. He stated unequivocally that, if the Conservative party were ever in a position to do so, it would block enlargement because it would not sign up to any treaty that did not include flexibility. It is an odd way in which to support the case for enlargement. It seems to be completely at odds with comments of the hon. Member for Tunbridge Wells.
In the time available, I will try to deal with the points that have been raised. The hon. Member for Stratford-on-Avon accused the Government of being involved in a sell-out of NATO. Nothing could be further from the truth--NATO is the cornerstone of our defence policy. The common foreign and security policy will work in tandem and complement our relationship with NATO. We have made that clear at every opportunity. It was certainly made clear when I attended the historic meeting of the General Affairs Committee of the Council, when Defence Ministers joined Foreign Ministers in supporting this Government's initiative on a common foreign and security policy.
We shall keep close to NATO. As soon as we completed our discussions in the General Affairs Committee, we met the non-EU NATO members and other countries which had reason to want to be kept informed of developments. It is rubbish to suggest that we are in any way sidestepping our role with NATO.
The hon. Member for Stratford-on-Avon should be ashamed of himself for not supporting what my right hon. Friends the Chancellor and the Foreign Secretary have said about the withholding tax. The Government are in no way prepared to support the tax because of the devastating effect that it would have on the eurobond market. That is why we have fought so hard to prevent it being imposed. He knows that and should be supporting the Government.
The hon. Gentleman should also be supporting the Government's action on the droit de suite, which he also mentioned. Ministers are fighting day in, day out to protect our position. The blocking minority on the droit de suite remains. There will be further discussions on 7 December on that important issue and we shall stick to our policy.
The hon. Member for Stone (Mr. Cash) referred to the charter of rights. I am surprised at him, because I made it clear in my evidence to the Scrutiny Committee that it is a charter of existing rights. It sets out the rights that have been granted to EU citizens as a result of treaties and legislation. It is not binding or enforceable. It is a charter,
as we have said, not a new treaty. It is right that we should send the distinguished lawyer Lord Goldsmith as our representative on the drafting Committee.
My hon. Friend the Member for Swansea, East(Mr. Anderson) has told me that unfortunately he cannot be present for the closing speeches. He was right to say that on 1 May 1997 there was a sea change in the relationship between this country and the rest of Europe. He said that that was important, because at last we have a Government prepared to defend the interests of the United Kingdom, fully engage with our partners and ensure that this country's interests are paramount. As the right hon. Member for Henley (Mr. Heseltine), the former Deputy Prime Minister, said, no one can wield a handbag from an empty chair. For far too long, this country's negotiations were conducted by those who did not want to engage with our European partners.
My hon. Friend was also right to mention the importance of meeting the expectations of the people of Hungary, Poland and the other applicant countries. I have visited Hungary and Poland, where there is a tremendous mood of expectancy. Those countries are working very hard with EU negotiators to ensure that they meet the necessarily tough criteria set down in the acquis. I am confident--
Mr. Cash:
Will the Minister give way?
Mr. Vaz:
No; the hon. Gentleman has had a lot of time to put his views forward and I shall come to him later in my speech.
The sooner that the tough negotiations are completed, the better. We have made it clear that there is a self-imposed deadline. The European Union has to be ready for enlargement by 2002. We hope that the negotiations will be completed as soon as possible. When they are, the deal has to be ratified by the member Parliaments, so it will be some time before it comes into force. We shall be ready by 2002 and we shall do everything that we can to help the applicant countries.
The eloquent right hon. and learned Member for North-East Fife (Mr. Campbell) rightly talked about the values of freedom and democracy, and the political advantages for the new democracies. It would be quite wrong for the EU to turn its back on these new countries. We believe that it is important that the EU should be as wide as possible, and that it should not be exclusive. It should allow entry to countries which meet the terms and conditions required--not just the Copenhagen criteria, but all the other economic criteria implicit in joining the EU.
On Turkey--a subject raised by a number of right hon. and hon. Members--our position has always been that Turkey should be confirmed as a candidate in Helsinki. No special conditions should be applied to Turkey. We understand all the points that have been made today--including by the right hon. Member for Caernarfon (Mr. Wigley)--on human rights. We are aware of that, as are the Turkish Government. However, it is not right that special conditions should be applied to countries seeking to become candidates. We hope that that will be confirmed at Helsinki.
My hon. Friend the Member for East Carmarthen and Dinefwr (Mr. Williams)--an old friend of mine from my days in the corridor at the cloisters--reminded us of the divisions within the Conservative party and of the pivotal
role that Britain now plays not just in Europe, but in the world. As the Prime Minister said in his Lord Mayor's speech on Monday--and as the Foreign Secretary repeated the day after--it is important that this country should play its role not just in European affairs, but world affairs.
My hon. Friend the Member for East Carmarthen and Dinefwr mentioned the euro. Our position on the euro has been clear since 1997. Five economic tests have to be met and, once they are met, there will be a referendum. In the end, it will not be the hon. Member for Stratford-on-Avon or I who decide by vote of this Parliament--it will be the British people who decide whether we join the euro. However, we will be in that position only when those crucial economic tests have been met.
The hon. Member for Rochford and Southend, East (Sir T. Taylor) is one of the most passionate and principled Members on the EU. He did not change his mind under the previous Government, or under this Government--as some hon. Members have done. There have been some remarkable conversions over the past few years. He wanted to know the Government's position on tax. The Government approach taxation in the EU in the way that we approach all other European issues--with a hard-headed assessment of what is in the British national interest. The UK is working actively and constructively with our European partners while retaining the national veto over tax. The hon. Gentleman described himself as this House's very own Jonah. I wonder which of his colleagues would be prepared to play the whale.
My hon. Friend the Member for Harlow (Mr. Rammell) was right to say that we must look at the size of the Commission. That is the purpose of the IGC--it is one of the key issues to be discussed. If a number of countries are to join the European Union, all of which have an emotional attachment to having their own Commissioners, the Commission will get too big and bureaucratic. It is important that we look at the structure of the Commission. My right hon. Friend the Foreign Secretary said that the larger countries were prepared to give up their second Commissioner provided that--but only then--there is a reweighting of votes on the European Council.
We heard an excellent speech from the hon. Member for Wycombe (Sir R. Whitney)--but how mean of the hon. Member for Teignbridge (Mr. Nicholls) to describe the hon. Gentleman as a semi-grandee. I thought that once one received one's knighthood within the Conservative party, one became a full grandee. The hon. Member for Wycombe was right to say that certain sections of the press have been poisoning the minds of sections of the British people. It is vital that we have an honest debate about the issue. I respect the hon. Gentleman for being able to do so, bearing in mind the views of some of his colleagues. Like the hon. Member for Rochford and Southend, East, he has not changed his mind in the way that the personality of the Leader of the Opposition has changed. He has remained firm to his principles, for which I respect him.
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