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5.57 pm
Dr. Alan Whitehead (Southampton, Test): I apologise, Mr. Deputy Speaker, for being absent during part of the debate. I was carrying out a long-standing engagement with the Environmental Services Association, about which I shall say more about later. I was delighted to hear in the Queen's Speech of a series of proposed Bills that will have an impact on the environment and the way in which our communities work. The right to roam Bill, the important transport legislation and the new proposals for utilities regulation and water services will all have a substantial impact on quality of life and the way in which our environment works.
The important unifying factor in the implementation and the consequences of the legislation is local government. I am pleased that, although it is late in the debate, we have now discussed at some length the Government's proposals for local government. They are important not only against the background of the measures in the Queen's Speech but because of our past debates on housing, waste management, economic regeneration and the devolution of power. In all those important areas, it is the tier of government represented by local government that will be responsible for ensuring that results of benefit to our people are achieved.
One of the most important successes in terms of environmental action following the Rio summit has been the local action carried out under Agenda 21, which has largely been pushed forward by local authorities, with non-governmental organisations as partners.
The local government Bill mentioned in the Queen's Speech is the second to arise out of the White Paper, and is of central importance, especially in view of the history of local government over the 18 years during which the Conservatives were in power. I find it astonishing that the Conservative party has now declared 1999 to be the year
zero. I imagine that anyone who dares mention anything that happened before that date is met with a withering sneer. As far as I know, those in Conservative central office with any knowledge of local government have now been sent to the countryside, where I imagine they will meet leaders of Conservative councils who are enthusiastically implementing the changes that the present Government have made in local government.
The idea that nothing that happened before is pertinent to what the Conservatives are saying now or is of concern to them represents a profound misunderstanding of local government. Over many years the Conservative party lambasted it unmercifully, passed pettifogging legislation to restrict what it could do, and ridiculed it in the newspapers and in the Chamber, with the result that local government became demoralised and the populationfelt that it could not do its job satisfactorily. Local government became worried about whether it could deliver on many of the services covered by the proposed legislation.
Dr. Julian Lewis:
I thank the hon. Gentleman, who is my neighbour, for giving way. Did not one reason why local government had a bad reputation lie in the antics of a man who subsequently became the hon. Member for Brent, East (Mr. Livingstone), when he was in command of local government in London? Is not Labour so traumatised by that memory that the Government are doing everything they can to make sure that the hon. Gentleman never again has another senior local government position?
Dr. Whitehead:
I am interested that the hon. Member for New Forest, East (Dr. Lewis) should raise that issue. I find it strange that he confirms again that the previous Government abolished an entire tier of local government simply because they did not like one person. That does not seem to be a responsive attitude towards the future of local government. However, I am delighted that the hon. Gentleman mentioned someone who is standing as mayor of the new London authority, as I wanted to say a word or two about the consequences of ignorance. It seems to me that the Conservative party is profoundly ignorant of the past, the future and the real circumstances of local government and what can best be done to modernise it and make it accountable and in tune with the people.
I was interested to see the document that was recently produced by the right hon. Member for Wokingham(Mr. Redwood) on policies for the environment, town and country. The net policy proposed by the Conservatives is that they would strengthen parish councils. I am not sure how that would work. The document also demonstrates their wish to protect the countryside, but to allow unlimited car access and remove from local authorities any ability to organise local communities in such a way that the car does not destroy the lives of people who live in rural areas.
The ignorance of the Conservative party, however, was best summed up for me today. The hon. Member for New Forest, East will be interested to know that I attended a lunch at which the speaker was Jeffrey Archer, the Conservative candidate for mayor of London. He made a short speech and then offered to take questions. As the lunch had been organised by the Environmental Services Association, one of the questions related to waste management. Mr. Archer was asked whether, if he
became mayor, he would do something about the fact that London's waste is dumped all over various parts of the home counties. I wrote down his reply, which was as follows:
Mr. Deputy Speaker (Sir Alan Haselhurst):
Order.I should remind the hon. Gentleman that he is referring to a Member of the other place and should refer to him accordingly.
Dr. Whitehead:
I apologise, Mr. Deputy Speaker. I should make it clear that I am referring to Lord Archer of Weston-super-Mare.
When Lord Archer turns up for his meeting at Middlesex county hall just across the river, I fear that he will be somewhat surprised to find that that county council was abolished in the early 1960s. It worries me that a person standing for such high office should know so little of the geography involved.
I agree with my hon. Friend the Member for Chatham and Aylesford (Mr. Shaw) that the local government legislation proposed in the Queen's Speech will give local authorities the opportunity to be in tune with their communities, and to innovate and move forward on their behalf. Legislation already passed on best value will shortly begin to make a substantial change to the way in which local authorities provide services for their communities. It will also mean that those services will develop in partnership with those communities. They will no longer be dominated by brown envelopes, nor subject to the bottom line that is part of a very limited definition of accountancy.
The hon. Member for Reigate (Mr. Blunt) was mistaken in his understanding of the history of local government. A key change proposed in the Queen's Speech will affect the one component of local government that has never changed, even during the long period when the Conservatives were lambasting local authorities. The committee system of local government remains unchanged since Victorian times. Can that system develop the necessary innovation and empathy with local communities, or should another approach be adopted?
I suggest that the idea of local authorities having a leader with a cabinet to replace the interminable procedures involved in a committee system represents a substantial step forward for local understanding and accountability. It is not true that that idea is not popular with local communities, or that it is of no interest to them. I wish to place on record that, in the recent consultation carried out by Southampton city council, more than 7,000 written forms were returned by residents, a majority of whom supported the adoption of a system involving a leader and a cabinet.
Once explained so that people understand that they represent a serious step forward for local government, the proposals are genuinely popular. I therefore commend that element of the Queen's Speech, as it will give new life and powers to local government.
Mr. Tim Yeo (South Suffolk):
This has been a wide-ranging debate, as one would expect given the breadth of issues covered by the Department of the Environment, Transport and the Regions, and by the Ministry of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food. It has been notable for two excellent maiden speeches from the hon. Members for Hamilton, South (Mr. Tynan) and for Wigan (Mr. Turner). Both acquitted themselves with distinction, and I know more about their constituencies than ever before.
Also notable was the speech by my right hon. Friend the Member for Henley (Mr. Heseltine), who is not in the Chamber at present. I am sorry that he does not appear more often in the House. His forthright support for the concept of directly elected mayors made me wonder whether it was too late for him to enter the London race--especially as there is some doubt about whether it is necessary to accept all aspects of party policy to do so.
There have been other high-quality contributions from both sides of the House. I was particularly moved by my hon. Friend the Member for West Dorset (Mr. Letwin), who described the reality facing farmers in his constituency here and now. It was a powerful plea for action, not more words, from the Government. His plea was endorsed by my hon. Friend the Member for Ludlow (Mr. Gill), who also exposed the way in which the Government are depriving rural services in his constituency of funds. My hon. Friend the Member for Vale of York (Miss McIntosh) rightly identified the burden of over-regulation as one of the biggest problems facing farmers.
I intended to refer to the speeches of some six Labour Members, but as they have not returned to the Chamber I will skip that section of my speech. However, I welcome the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food to the debate. We scheduled agriculture as one of the subjects for today's debate to help him. I wanted to give him a chance to remedy the extraordinary omission that many of my hon. Friends have drawn to the attention of the House--the fact that in one of the longest Queen's Speeches ever, which contains more proposals than the previous Queen's Speeches from this Government, agriculture, which is suffering the worst crisis for a generation, does not even merit a reference.
I welcome my right hon. Friend the Member for Henley back to the Chamber. I am afraid that I have already referred to him, but he will be able to read the reference in Hansard. I am sure that he will enjoy it as much as my colleagues did.
Labour said that 1999 was to be the year of delivery. What the Government have done is to deliver many farmers into the hands of regulators, bankers, creditors and even liquidators. This evening, the Minister has a chance to fill that gap in the Queen's Speech, to tell the thousands of farmers what he will do to help and to make it clear that Labour has not simply forgotten them.
The only passage in the Queen's Speech that directly affects agriculture and the countryside is the proposalto introduce the right to roam and overhaul wildlife
protection. The only reference in the Prime Minister's speech yesterday was to my comment about illegally fed French livestock, which he seemed to think related to the completely different issue of the French ban on British beef exports. I will deal with both issues later. Whether the right hon. Gentleman is muddled or whether he deliberately plays fast and loose with the truth, the fact is that the more he twists and distorts Tory policy, the more we will tell the truth about Labour policy.
The proposed countryside access and amenities Bill will deal with two completely unconnected themes. The first is wildlife protection. In principle, we support the need to strengthen existing legislation, although we will need to study the detail of the Bill when it is published. The second is the right to roam. We remain worried about the practical consequences of using the law to increase access to land instead of the voluntary approach, which was making such excellent progress. My hon. Friend the Member for Vale of York emphasised the consequences for her constituents. My fear is that many people will simply not understand where the right to roam begins and ends. The consequences for conservation could be damaging.
The fight against rural crime, which has already been hit by the Home Secretary's cuts in the number of police, will be made even harder. Furthermore, an opportunity to streamline the existing cumbersome procedures for altering footpaths is being missed. I hope that the Government will accept amendments to remedy that.
One other issue affects the countryside. My right hon. Friend the Member for Wokingham (Mr. Redwood) exposed the Government's total failure to protect green fields against excessive development. My hon. Friends the Members for North Shropshire (Mr. Paterson) and for Reigate (Mr. Blunt) referred to that problem and to the disastrous impact that it may be having on their constituencies and the regions around them.
That failure was further compounded by a leaked Cabinet Office report--mentioned in the thoughtful speech by my hon. Friend the Member for West Dorset--which recommended that prime agricultural land should no longer be preserved for food production, and that it too should be sold off for development. There could scarcely be a starker warning that this Labour Government do not believe that British agriculture has any long-term future. It would cost the Minister and the taxpayer nothing this evening to give Britain's beleaguered farmers a modest morale boost. Let him say that the idea of flogging off prime agricultural land for development is unequivocally rejected.
Let me turn now directly to agriculture. It is three weeks since the House last debated the subject, and France's illegal ban on imports of British beef remains in force. We keep being told every day that the Government are pursuing the right strategy. Let us review the progress.
It was almost a year ago, on 22 November 1998, that the Minister first told the House that the ban would be lifted. By 17 December, he was able to say when exports would start. He said:
It is a strange notion of diplomacy that involves not talking to the French Minister. Three weeks ago, as the crisis reached fever pitch, it emerged that the Minister had not even spoken to his French counterpart for more than a week. He told Radio 4 that it would be nonsensical to do so. Perhaps it was just as well, because when he eventually did meet the French Minister two and a half weeks ago, just four days after the European scientific steering committee had unanimously endorsed the safety of British beef, he went to Brussels with all the aces in his hand and still managed to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. He allowed France to reopen five aspects of the scheme that had already been settled to everyone's satisfaction. He told us that it was only a matter of clarifying a few technicalities and that France would lift its ban on British beef exports by last Thursday. That was a week ago, but that deadline, like every other deadline in this whole story, passed with no lifting of the ban by France and no action by Britain.
On Monday, the Minister told The Times that he believed that a solution was very, very close and that the two sides had taken a major step forward. Three days later, the position seems to be unchanged. The fear is now that he is preparing to make more concessions for which there is no scientific, legal or political justification, unless, of course, the Prime Minister has ordered him to go on giving in to France, however outrageous its demands.
The Minister is rather a decent fellow and I like him very much. I have to give him some advice: I do not think that the Prime Minister is any longer on his side. If the Minister allows more conditions to be imposed on the date-based export scheme, which is already so hedged with restrictions that rebuilding exports will inevitably be a long, hard process, and if British beef will be allowed into France only with a special label, his weakness will be exposed still further. At the very time that the row over beef exports has reached its climax, the scandal of contaminated French meat fed on illegal materials has erupted. That scandal is a separate, unrelated issue, but it raises the same principles.
Four weeks ago, the practice of feeding French livestock human sewage and other illegal material was publicised, and the Minister refused to act. Does anyone believe that if a British farmer was caught feeding British animals with illegal materials the Minister would stand at the Dispatch Box and say that no action was needed? The Minister tried to justify his inaction by saying that he was advised that there was no risk to human health. Even that was a misquotation. The actual advice was that there was no immediate risk to human health.
If the Minister is willing to accept that advice when it applies to meat produced in France, why will he not accept the advice of the chief medical officer about meat produced in England? Why at this time of all times, when France is demanding ever more detailed information about British meat, is the Minister so trusting of the French authorities that he has not even obtained their response to the European Commission inspectors' report? Is he afraid to ask for it? I understand that the French sent their answer to the Commission almost three weeks ago. Why has it not been published? If everything in the French cowshed is so tickety-boo, why the secrecy? There is a disgraceful double standard operating here. A Minister who agrees that safe British beef must carry the stigma of a special label before it can go on sale in France while refusing to allow British consumers to know which French meat coming into Britain has been fed with illegal sewage sludge will never enjoy the confidence of British farmers and consumers again.
Finally, on beef, three weeks ago the Minister claimed:
"This is a serious issue. We need dialogue on this. I have already spoken to the leaders of Kent and Surrey county councils and in the next few days I am due to have a meeting with the leaders of Middlesex county council."
[Hon. Members: "Middlesex?"] Yes, Middlesex. Immediately the image came to me of Mr. Archer turning up to a meeting at Middlesex--
"I anticipate that we will be able to start exporting deboned beef by the spring of next year."--[Official Report, 17 December 1998; Vol. 322, c. 1091.]
18 Nov 1999 : Column 220
For anyone who wondered how that great achievement had come about, he was later to say:
In mid July, the Minister obviously thought that his diplomacy was working because he announced to the House a firm date for resumption of beef exports. Spring was a little late this year, because the date was 1 August. In the four months since then, not a single ounce of beef--not a single kilogram, we might say--has been sold to France and Germany. So defective was his diplomacy that he clearly made his statement in July without checking with France that it agreed. Yet he was on notice that France harboured doubts, because France had abstained on the issue when it was discussed at the Agriculture Council in November 1998.
"Labour leadership in Europe and our constructive approach towards our European partners has clearly been shown to succeed."--[Official Report, 14 July 1999; Vol. 335, c. 405.]
"As for a link between the ban on beef on the bone . . . and the date-based export scheme, no such link exists."
I am sorry that the Minister is catching the habit of the Prime Minister of making statements that are not true. Just six days earlier, the agriculture counsellor at the French Embassy in London wrote to the Farmers Guardian making it clear that the British ban on beef on the bone was a reason for the French continued ban on British beef exports.
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