Fourth Standing Committee on Delegated Legislation
Wednesday 3 November 1999
[Mr. Humphrey Malins in the Chair]
Draft Licensing and Registered Clubs (Northern Ireland) Order 1999
4.30 pm
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Northern Ireland (Mr. George Howarth): I beg to move,
That the Committee has considered the draft Licensing and Registered Clubs (Northern Ireland) Order 1999.
The draft order is intended to allow licensed premises—other than off-licences—and registered clubs in Northern Ireland to stay open for the sale or supply of alcohol throughout the night of the millennium new year's eve, if they wish to do so. I stress that it is a choice, not a requirement.
To achieve that, the order broadly provides a 12-and-a-half-hour relaxation of the general permitted hours for these premises from 11 pm, the normal closing time, on 31 December 1999 until 11.30 am, the normal opening time, on 1 January 2000. The order also extends the duration of occasional licences granted for 31 December 1999. I should emphasise that the order does not apply to off-licences, nor does it allow off-sales during the new year additional hours; alcohol sold or supplied during those hours must be consumed on the premises.
An order in Council is normally published for public comment. Unfortunately, that has not been possible for this order because of the need to have the legislation in operation for the millennium holiday. However, the Government's decision to relax licensing hours for this one-off occasion was taken in the light of responses to a consultation paper issued to a wide range of interests last December. The consultation exercise did not provide sufficient support to justify a relaxation of licensing hours for every new year's eve. The support for some change was, however, considered sufficient to justify a 12-and-a-half-hour relaxation specifically for the millennium—an event that many people would accept as a unique occasion to be marked by special celebrations.
The Deregulation (Millennium Licensing) Order 1999 allows similar premises in England and Wales to open throughout the night of the millennium new year's eve. In England and Wales, unlike Northern Ireland, provision is made for restriction orders to prevent all or any of the additional hours from applying in certain premises. Similar provision for Northern Ireland would be impractical because the order cannot come into operation before the beginning of December, which is too late for the processing of applications, hearings and any other procedures which may be necessary.
Finally, I emphasise that, although the order extends the general permitted hours for the premises involved, the existing safeguards in law for those hours will continue to apply. I commend the order to the Committee.
4.33 pm
Mr. Malcolm Moss (North-East Cambridgeshire): I begin by welcoming the Minister to his new position in the Northern Ireland Office. He served with distinction in his previous post; no doubt his new post will enable him to make his own mark in a special way in a special Province. He has inherited some of the jobs that I carried out in my previous life, including addressing the vexatious problem of licensing hours in Northern Ireland. It was one of the first problems on my desk when I arrived at the Northern Ireland Office, and it took me nearly two years to get the Licensing (Northern Ireland) Order 1996 through the House. It is a particularly difficult problem for Northern Ireland.
I suspect that the Minister has inherited a policy decision taken by his predecessor and so cannot be held responsible in any way for the outcome. It is a contentious matter and we support the broad principle of what is proposed. It simply brings Northern Ireland into line with England and Wales for one special occasion.
I have a few questions for the Minister, who kindly sent me a letter on the matter before the order was laid. The decision was based on consultation up to that time; some 102 letters had been received, which appears to be a low response on the issue of licensing and the extension of hours. Was the change given enough publicity and are 102 responses, which were evenly balanced between the pros and cons, enough to reflect full and open consultation?
I accept that, given the moves towards devolution and the fact that some decisions were put on the back burner in the hope that they would be taken more locally in a devolved Administration, someone had to take the bull by the horns. I suspect that that is what happened in this case. However, if 102 responses were evenly balanced, I am puzzled why the Government concluded that the overall representation was in favour of change. Some people who made representations might not have sent letters. Did the Minister or his predecessor attend meetings at which counter-views were put?
There would be problems if the order were held up. The objective is clearly stated in the memorandum which says:
``The measure is primarily intended to facilitate the Millennium celebrations by relaxing licensing hours but will also have the advantage of removing the requirement to apply to the courts and police for extended hours for the eve of the Millennium.''
Given the delay in laying the order, has the Minister's Department advised those involved that there is no need to apply for an extension of hours on that evening, or have organisations applied through the normal channels? If so, how much money and time has been expended unnecessarily by those organisations?
The Government suggest in paragraph 4 of the memorandum
``That the proposal is estimated to offer savings of £200,000 primarily for licensed premises.''
However, if some of those premises have already applied for an extension, that amount will decrease. The Government also suggest that there will be savings for the police. I accept that savings will be made through not having to deal with applications for extended licences, but in a net context I cannot believe that the millennium in any way, shape or form will lead to savings for the police.
The chief constable of my county, Cambridgeshire, told me that almost £1 million has been set aside for the millennium. I realise that that matter does not come within the ambit of the Minister's responsibilities and that some of the potential expense may be attributable to the millennium bug, but a great deal of it is for extra policing for the millennium celebrations. It is misleading for his Department to say that the police will make savings without explaining that there will be no overall net saving because of the heavy burden imposed on the public purse by the need to police the occasion.
Article 4(4)(b) deals with the giving of licences as they relate to
``authorisation granted under Article 45 of the Licensing Order'',
which refers to the 1996 order. That order refers to special occasions on which licensed premises may apply for an extension to their licensing hours—20 late-night openings are allowed in any 12-month period. There is a later reference to the permitted late-night opening hours of clubs—under article 8, 52 late-night openings are allowed in a calendar year. Does the order that we are considering impinge on the allowance of extensions to late-night opening under existing legislation, or will it develop it?
4.40 pm
Rev. Martin Smyth (Belfast, South): I, too, welcome the Minister to his post. I have already corresponded with him on issues and his responses have been gracious and helpful.
The hon. Member for North-East Cambridgeshire (Mr. Moss) spoke of savings, but savings are unlikely to accrue if, for instance, the Army has to be called out to prevent revellers at the dome from falling into the Thames. The harsh financial reality of such an event might impinge on security in Northern Ireland, where police officers are not on night duty in strength.
The order has been introduced for several reasons. I suspect that, once its principle has been accepted, points raised about special licences might be developed further.
I and others are glad that hype about the millennium is beginning to be challenged. Parties arranged in Northern Ireland have been cancelled because people were not prepared to spend the sums requested. One must recognise that a reason for the order is not only to allow people in Northern Ireland and in the rest of the United Kingdom to enjoy themselves at the millennium but to raise funds for the Government, who will receive a revenue rake-off if more spirits and liquor are sold. However, as has already been suggested, there will also be great public expenditure.
Speaking of enjoyment, I should mention that I was once asked whether I enjoyed myself. I replied that I did, but that I was able to remember doing so in the morning.
The millennium celebration should be made into an opportunity for proper family reunions; instead, it might lead to the division of families and especially to many young people being led down a path that they would do better not to follow. However, the order has been introduced, and it is not likely that it will be stopped. We shall watch what the Budget discloses about expenditure on public services and income for the Exchequer.
Alternatively, the Government and Opposition might be using the occasion to try again to get us to forget what this millennium has been about; on the morning of l January many folk will have to try to remember what happened on the previous night.
4.43 pm
Mr. Lembit Öpik (Montgomeryshire): I welcome the Minister to his new post. A propos of what we have just heard, I note that it is said of people who do not drink that they do not live longer, it just seems that they do
It is for individuals to choose how they bring in the new millennium. I hope that, in Northern Ireland and in the rest of the United Kingdom, people will act responsibly. We support the order.
4.44 pm
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