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9.43 pm
The Minister of State, Home Office (Mr. Paul Boateng): The House has heard a good debate in which a topic that arouses deep feelings has been discussed with seriousness and passion. Feelings are deep on both sides of the House, among those who are for and against the Bill, and feelings also run deep in the country. It is right that we should have a free vote, and I shall vote, as I always have, for the equalisation of the age of consent at 16. Each of us must approach this issue informed by our consciences, our experience and our personal views.
It is interesting that hon. Members both for and against the Bill have felt able to talk about faith, and about love. That does the House great credit.
As we move forward in this process, it is important that we continue, both on the Floor of the House and in Committee, to approach the topic in a way that does not harden attitudes or alienate our fellow citizens who have strongly held views and also in a way that recognises that we are dealing with a subject that goes to the heart of people's very existence. During the debate, hon. Members have mentioned the anguish that individuals and their families feel as they approach their own sexuality and its impact on themselves and on those they love.
The Bill falls into two distinct parts. We owe a debt of gratitude to my hon. Friends the Members for Bassetlaw (Mr. Ashton), for Newcastle-under-Lyme (Mrs. Golding)--she could not be present tonight for reasons that we all know and understand--and for Brentford and Isleworth (Ann Keen) for enabling us to examine the Bill in this way and to give it the detailed consideration that it deserves.
The first part of the Bill deals with the age of consent, which is a matter of principle and, for many hon. Members who spoke, is very much a matter of equality before the law. The second part, quite differently, deals with abuse of trust and must be seen as part of the Government's much wider work--how we protect children and vulnerable people--and I am glad it enjoys the support of both sides of the House. That is a top priority for the Government.
My hon. Friends the Members for Salford (Ms Blears) and for Stretford and Urmston (Ms Hughes) said that it is important that we recognise the significance of what we are doing in terms of that wider programme of work on the "Quality Protects" initiative, the children's safeguards review and our response to that. During the review of sexual offences that we announced earlier, we will ensure that the goal of protection from abuse is the paramount goal for the criminal law in that area. Nothing must be subordinated to it.
We must ensure that we prevent unsuitable people from working with children. As my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State announced earlier, we will make available the report of the group of experts that we asked to examine the matter to ensure that we work out the details of an integrated scheme to protect vulnerable people and children as a matter of priority. We have to do so not because we are discussing the equalisation of the age of consent today, but because it is the right thing to do. It was always the right thing to do and it has been neglected for far too long.
Also, we must deal with the wider issues that have been raised in the debate, particularly, but not exclusively, by those who oppose equalisation of the age of consent, saying that it is the thin end of the wedge. That point was made by the hon. Members for Gainsborough (Mr. Leigh), for Aldershot (Mr. Howarth) and for New Forest, East (Dr. Lewis).
My hon. Friend the Member for St. Helens, South(Mr. Bermingham) expressed concern about the importance of ensuring that we get the penalties right in cases of abuse of trust. I am here to assure him, first, that we are determined to ensure that the provisions contained in the Bill on abuse of trust are clearly understood to refer to consensual activity. With the sort of activities that he described--rape and indecent assault--it is right that the full penalties invoked by the law for such offences should apply. The Bill deals with abuse of trust in relation to consensual acts. I am sure that he appreciates the difference. That is precisely the sort of matter that we will discuss in Committee.
The same is true of the matters of detail raised by the hon. Member for Oxford, West and Abingdon(Dr. Harris). They properly relate to the wider issues of equality dealt with by our review of sexual offences. The review again seeks to build a broad consensus in our society that recognises deeply held feelings and the issues of faith and belief that inform all hon. Members in their approach to the subject.
On the thin-end-of-the-wedge argument, let me make this crystal clear: the Government are wholly opposed to any further reduction in the age of consent for either sex. We will not countenance a reduction to 14, 12 or any of the other ages mentioned with reference to our European neighbours.
Mr. Gerald Howarth:
Will the Minister give way?
Mr. Boateng:
Not at the moment.
This is not about encouraging teenage sex but about ensuring that the law is fair and seen to be fair. We know that the criminal law is a blunt and often deeply
unsatisfactory instrument in dealing with the difficult and complex issues raised by teenage sexuality. It would be folly to pretend otherwise.
Mr. Gray:
Will the Minister give way?
Mr. Boateng:
Not at the moment.
The hon. Member for New Forest, East asked about the mental state of a young man who committed suicide when he had only to wait another 18 months or so. My response is this: what sort of society allows a young man to get into that frame of mind in the first place? We must ensure that, as a society, we recognise the impact on the mental health of the young people concerned. The House will wish to consider that. While we must be concerned about AIDS and sexually transmitted diseases, I ask hon. Members, who I know hold their views in all sincerity, to bear that in mind in examining the measure's health implications. Their arguments are not supported by the British Medical Association or those who have an interest in, or who spend their professional lives tackling, issues of adolescent sexual health.
I want to move on to abuse of trust. We want to ensure that the Bill has a proportionate response to the concerns expressed in the debate, both here and in another place last summer. It was a fundamental principle in considering the new protections proposed in the Bill that they should be wholly non-discriminatory. I believe that we have achieved that end.
The new offence is a useful additional means of addressing concern about the lack of a suitable range of protection for vulnerable 16 and 17-year-olds of both sexes. It must form part of a wider programme of work, both statutory and non-statutory. It is in that context that we will address the codes of practice that are so important in ensuring that we reflect the concerns raised by several hon. Members, not least the right hon. Member for Berwick-upon-Tweed (Mr. Beith), who mentioned the impact of the abuse of trust provision on the professions. We believe that it is necessary that the provision should apply to teachers, because teachers stand in loco parentis: that is what distinguishes them from the members of various other professions who also exercise a degree of care and responsibility over children and young people. That is why we have included teachers as we have. There is room for discussion with the professions on the code of practice and we intend that that discussion should take place.
It is important to recognise what lies behind the marriage exception, a subject raised by the hon. Member for Oxford, West and Abingdon. He has to understand that the marriage exception is a specific reflection of the importance and special status that the European convention on human rights gives to marriage. It would be wrong if, in the provisions relating to abuse of trust, no reference was made to marriage. It must be emphasised and clearly understood that the provision does not in any way excuse abuses of trust prior to marriage.
Mr. Bermingham:
Given what Ministers have said about the points relating to abuse that I raised earlier and about the codes of practice, is the Minister saying that he
Mr. Boateng:
I assure my hon. Friend that those are indeed matters which we shall examine in Committee and during our consultations and discussions with the professions. We need to get it right, because our first duty is to the children and young people who will be most affected by the legislation.
Tonight has been a night of speeches that reflect the concern about the issues that is felt in the wider community. We approach the subject from the perspective, not only of rights, but of responsibilities. We have to get the balance right between rights and responsibilities. One word has not been mentioned as often as it might have been: we have heard about tolerance, which is important; but even more important than tolerance is respect--respect for difference and respect for institutions that contain individuals who have a particular responsibility of trust in connection with children and vulnerable people. The debate is about rights and responsibilities, but, above all, it is about respect--respect for one another, respect for childhood and the vulnerability that comes with childhood.
If we get the balance right and if hon. Members bear that in mind when they cast their vote tonight and subsequently, we stand a good chance of getting the legislation right. There is a great deal riding on our getting it right, for, if we get it wrong, the consequences for many vulnerable and young people will be extremely serious. Tonight, I shall vote in support of the Bill. Hon. Members have an opportunity to make up their own mind. I have no doubt that they will do the right thing.
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