Welsh Grand Committee
Tuesday 16 December 1997
[Mr. Barry Jones in the Chair]
Oral Answers to Questions
The Secretary of State was asked--
Rate Capping
10.30 am
1. Mr. Alan W. Williams: If he will make a statement on rate capping in the local government expenditure decision for 1998-99. (19375)
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Wales (Mr. Win Griffiths): My right hon. Friend the Secretary of State announced his plans for individual local authority spending on 10 December. He discussed them yesterday with the Welsh Local Government Association at a Welsh consultative council meeting on local government finance. We also have the opportunity this morning to discuss the plans during our debate.
Mr. Williams: I hope that under those plans my local authority of Carmarthenshire will receive an increase of 4.4 per cent. in the standard spending assessment and 4.3 per cent. in the maximum allowable budget. My constituents will be grateful for those increases. Can my hon. Friend say whether it is the Government's policy to phase out rate capping over a period of years, as the Government promised at the last election? If the people of Carmarthenshire and our councillors wanted to spend, say, £1 million more on education, would they be allowed to do so?
Mr. Griffiths: Yes, it is the Government's policy to phase out rate capping. At present, two parallel pieces of work are being undertaken to help bring about that process, one of which relates to the best-value project. A week or so ago, I announced that 23 best-value projects would be taking place in Wales, out of the 26 that were put before us. In addition, we plan early in the new year to publish consultative papers on how to improve local democracy--part of which will be to try to ensure that there will be other means by which councils can consult their electorates on matters such as their spending plans.
Mr. Rowlands: I appreciate the Minister's Herculean efforts in respect of local government finance, but the assessment is absurd. Merthyr county borough is the only county borough and county council in this year's settlement to receive a reduction of £1 million in its standard spending assessment. It is facing the highest council tax and 8 per cent. cuts in services. A system that leads to a county borough, with its indices of deprivation, facing a reduction in its standard spending assessment of £1 million is crazy. Why has it happened? The local authority referred to by my hon. Friend the Member for East Carmarthen and Dinefwr (Mr. Williams) will have a 4.4 per cent. increase. Why?
Mr. Griffiths: The Welsh Local Government Association undertook a review of the formula, and this year's allocations have been based on the new formula agreed by the association, following consultation. Despite the fact that Merthyr came out badly, it will still be able to increase its spending by about 4 per cent., although, as a result, its council tax will increase.
I must emphasise that Merthyr still has the highest per capita spending in Wales. We have agreed with the Welsh Local Government Association that the same formula will be used for this year and next, but there will be a fundamental review to find the best new formula to treat all councils in Wales fairly.
Education Improvements
2. Mrs. Betty Williams: What plans has he to improve primary and secondary school education in Wales; and if he will make a statement. [19376]
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Wales (Mr. Peter Hain): The School Standards and Framework Bill, which was given its First Reading on 4th December, provides for smaller infant classes and places a duty on local education authorities to support schools in raising standards. We have set a new and challenging all-Wales target to raise pupils' standards, especially in literacy and numeracy. We have also provided £50 million extra for schools' budgeting and £65 million extra for much-needed renovation and repair work.
Mrs Williams: I apologise, Mr. Jones, for arriving late this morning.
I thank my hon. Friend the Under-Secretary for his answer. Will our right hon Friend the Secretary of State undertake to look again at his announced provisional capping limit for Conwy county borough council, as rate capping has presented the authority with major problems? In doing so, will he bear in mind that until the new unitary authorities came into being, many Conwy schools were in the county of Gwynedd, where the authority has been able to make a more substantial financial provision for schools?
Mr. Hain: I understand my hon. Friend's point, but I simply add that, of the additional money provided for schools' budgets, £1.65 million will go straight into Conwy schools' budget. It is also planned for more than £317,000 to go into capital investment in schools.
I take this opportunity to tell my hon. Friend that I hope that all local authorities will ensure that that £50 million extra funding for schools' budgets is genuinely treated as additional money and that there is no attempt to slice it off from the education budget--the overall dispensation decided by local authorities--after hearing my right hon. Friend's announcement.
Mr. Ieuan Wyn Jones: Does the Minister accept that, despite the priority that the Government have given to education, because of this year's overall local authority settlement Ynys Mon county council believe that there will be a further cut of 2 per cent. in its budget? That will inevitably mean a cut in education because, in revenue terms, that is the largest part of the settlement.
The capital settlement for Anglesey is the worst for any county in Wales, which means that the council will be able to begin only one project in the next financial year, but will not even be able to complete it. Will the Secretary of State look again at the capital settlement for the island?
Mr. Hain: I understand the hon. Gentleman's frustration about the tough settlement that was necessarily put in place this year. However, I urge him to look closely at the additional finance that has been provided for school budgets, because that should allow local authorities to move forward with confidence. Without that additional funding, and under the previous Government, even more savage cuts would have been imposed than have been visited upon Anglesey in the last couple of years.
Farming
3. Mr. Dafydd Wigley: What action he proposes to take to combat problems currently faced by Welsh farmers. [19377]
6. Mr Cynog Dafis: What representations he has received on current problems being faced by Welsh farmers. [19380]
The Secretary of State for Wales (Mr. Ron Davies): I have received a large number of representations. In addition to those personal representations, I have had several meetings with representatives of both farming unions in Wales--the National Farmers Union and the Farmers Union of Wales--the Country Landowners Association and representatives of unofficial farmers' leaders. As a result of those representations, I am currently having discussions with Cabinet colleagues and with the Agriculture Minister of the Irish Government.
Mr. Wigley: Will the Secretary of State take this opportunity to congratulate farmers on the responsible way in which they have undertaken their representations at such an acutely difficult time for the industry? The right hon. Gentleman will be aware of the industry's expectation that a statement will be made before Parliament goes into recess. Will he give an assurance that that statement will not only relate to the short-term caseflow crisis that faces the beef industry and the whole farming sector, but will address the long-term problems and guarantee a level playing field for exports? When does the right hon. Gentleman expect progress to be announced on a lifting of the ban?
Mr. Davies: The right hon. Gentleman asked several questions. I had a meeting last Friday with representatives of the farming unions, when I made it clear that the Government expected farmers who were legitimately exercising their right to protest to do so responsibly. I am delighted that, over the weekend, farmers have exercised that legitimate right lawfully and in a way that carries public support. I am pleased that they have done so.
We expect to make a statement before the House rises next Monday. That statement will, I hope, deal with the concerns expressed by the right hon. Gentleman. It will not only deal, as far as is possible, with the short-term problems of the industry, it will lay down a strategy for the long-term success of British agriculture, which must address the matters to which the right hon. Gentleman refers--the current crisis in the beef industry, the problems arising from the export ban and the difficulties resulting from the high pound.
Mr. Dafis: May I emphasise to the Secretary of State that what is at stake is not only farmers' income, important as that is, but the rural economy in its entirety and the social structure of rural areas? It is important to understand that the future of a whole economic sector is at stake; the situation is very grave indeed. When farmers make a loss, the rural economy makes a loss and, these days, farmers are, in a literal and real sense, working at a big loss in production.
The farmers will be satisfied only if the Government's statement is comprehensive and addresses the immediate cash situation. Will the Government undertake a comprehensive inquiry into imports, so that the matter is properly and thoroughly understood and measures can be brought forward to deal with the unsatisfactory aspects? We should seriously look at the sourcing policies of supermarkets, as the discrepancies in the way that supermarkets treat different sources of food are a cause of great concern and dissatisfaction. The export ban must be seriously addressed.
Mr. Davies: The hon. Gentleman makes a number of points, which I shall try to answer. I understand the concerns that he expresses on behalf of rural communities generally. He will know that last summer I announced that we would develop an agri-environmental strategy in Wales, which I hope will put in place longer-term mechanisms to bring some confidence and security to rural communities.
Following my meetings with farmers' representatives earlier this autumn, as part of the hill livestock compensatory allowances review, I invited representatives of the farming unions to meet me--they agreed to do so--so that the Government and farming unions could jointly develop a longer-term strategy. That is our response to the problems resulting from the insecurity affecting the whole of the rural community.
As to the other matters that the hon. Gentleman raised, the Government intend to make a statement--but he should not read into that that any help is forthcoming. The Government are considering those matters and a full statement will be made. The hon. Gentleman will know that we have taken unilateral action following the refusal of the Council of Ministers to agree to our proposals on bone in beef; we will, of course, continue to be robust. As to supermarkets, I have had discussions within the Welsh Office and my officials are in contact with them to find out how we can promote the best quality beef that is produced in this country--which is, of course, Welsh beef.
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