Standing Committee B
Tuesday 10 February 1998
[Mr. Barry Jones in the Chair]
10.30 am
The Minister of State, Northern Ireland Office (Mr. Adam Ingram): I beg to move,
That, during the proceedings on the Police (Northern Ireland) Bill, the Committee do meet on Tuesdays and Thursdays at half-past Ten o'clock and half-past Four o'clock, with the exception of Thursday 26 February at half-past Ten o'clock.
I welcome you to the Committee, Mr. Jones. I hope that you will find the Bill interesting. It is an important piece of legislation, which is designed to provide a sound framework for the future policing of Northern Ireland.
Before I turn to a detailed consideration of the Bill, I should like to comment on the specifics of the sittings motion and to set out the way in which the Committee can assist the Government in finding the best way forward for our discussions.
It is not intended that the Committee will sit at 10.30 am on Thursday 26 February. That is because a Meeting of the Northern Ireland Grand Committee, on which many members of this Committee serve, is scheduled for that time and date.
Although it is not set out in the sittings motion, I should like to advise hon. Members that by leave of the Committee, and with your agreement, Mr. Jones, that there will be no sittings of the Committee next week. The straightforward reason for that is that I shall be in Japan and Taiwan on a trade and inward investment mission, trying to bring business and jobs to Northern Ireland. We are likely to have many differences of opinion over the Bill as it progresses through Committee, but I know that all hon. Members will wish me well in that task in Japan and Taiwan.
Mr. Jim Dowd (Lord Commissioner to the Treasury): Hear, hear.
Mr. Ingram: I say ``origato'' to my hon. Friend and hope that I am allowed to speak Japanese in Committee.
Our procedures are matters for you, Mr. Jones, and the Committee, but I shall ask my hon. Friend the Whip to ask the Committee to agree to that rearrangement of our sittings at an appropriate stage during our deliberations on Thursday.
The Bill is a long one; it has 77 clauses and six schedules. You will know from your extensive experience, Mr. Jones, that, given the complexities of such legislation, it is important that it should have detailed and proper examination, preferably in a structured way. That is why I have offered each of the parties represented in Committee the opportunity to identify what they believe to be the key areas of the Bill and to which they wish to devote the major portion of their time.
I have not yet had an opportunity to speak to the hon. Member for Belfast, East (Mr. Robinson), but I will speak to him after the sitting about the points that I have already set out to hon. Members representing other parties.
After those consultations, by leave of the Committee and with your agreement, Mr. Jones, we will be able to structure our debates so as to have them at a sensible hour. The consideration of the Bill could be a long, drawn-out process, or, with the co-operation of the Committee, under your direction, Mr. Jones, we could adopt a more structured and purposeful approach to this important subject of the future policing of Northern Ireland.
The Bill has two main aims. The first is to extend to Northern Ireland the benefits of the improved system of police governance introduced to England, Wales and Scotland by the Police and Magistrates Courts Act 1994. The police planning and objective--setting mechanisms set out in the Bill are modelled closely on those that the Act introduced.
The new management provisions for police finance and for staff working in support of the police will put the Chief Constable and the RUC in the same position of being able to manage all the resources that he requires to police Northern Ireland as his colleagues in the rest of Great Britain. All those measures have proved their worth over the past three years, and the Government feel that it is right that they should now be extended to Northern Ireland. If we agree the sittings motion, we shall be able to structure our debates to ensure that we deal with these key elements.
The Bill's second main aim is to introduce a new, radical police complaints system to Northern Ireland, including provision for the wholly independent investigation of complaints, resulting in the abolition of the Independent Commission for Police Complaints, whose members and staff deserve recognition for their work. They have provided a valuable service to the public and to the police over the 10 years of the commission's existence.
I think that we have faithfully reflected the fact and the spirit of Dr. Hayes' recommendations of a little over a year ago. We have, for example, proposed the establishment of an independent ombudsman, who will have control of the complaints process. He, or she, will decide what constitutes a complaint, which is vital, and, equally important, will decide how it is to be investigated and by whom. In addition, the ombudsman will have to investigate the most serious cases, which are defined in clause 50.
The ombudsman will have his or her own investigative staff to do that and we will ensure that they are ready for their task.
In addition the Government have recognised the need for the ombudsman to be able to look at non-complaint matters: in effect, the ombudsman will have a call-in power.
We could not accept the ombudsman being able to take on one serious case because there was a complaint, yet being unable to touch another that was exactly the same, save that a complaint was not made.
The new independent system, which I have no doubt is a model for elsewhere and will be unique if it is agreed, will ensure police accountability, while also ensuring fair treatment of officers.
Other clauses are also unique to Northern Ireland. I should like to mention briefly what they do, because they cover key issues. The Bill sets up the new Northern Ireland police service. This new term includes all those who will work under the direction and control of the Chief Constable to supply a police service to the people of Northern Ireland. It does not abolish the Royal Ulster Constabulary--that proud title is retained--the body of sworn constables who form Northern Ireland's police force. However, the Bill does propose to change the declaration of office made by RUC officers so that it is the same as that used in Scotland.
It would also enable the Secretary of State to issue a statement of policing principles.
This would provide an opportunity for the Secretary of State to issue a paper setting out her vision, shared with the Chief Constable and the Police Authority of how Northern Ireland should be policed.
It is intended that the principles should reflect values that I am sure all of us would endorse: fairness, impartiality and respect for individual rights. I will make draft principles available to members of the Committee in good time for our consideration of this issue.
The changes to police governance that we are introducing are intended to strengthen the tripartite structure of policing, which is a proven model to which the Government are strongly committed. There can be no going back to the old Stormont model of direct political interference in police activity. The new measures set out in this Bill include a commitment to a strong Police Authority capable of representing the community and of holding the Chief Constable to account on its behalf. I pay tribute to the authority for performing these roles effectively through very difficult times, and to the sacrifices made by authority members and staff, including the ultimate sacrifice of life itself.
The Bill proposes to strengthen those roles further. I emphasise the Government's support for the Royal Ulster Constabulary, and pay tribute to the work of the police over many years in upholding the rule of law and the values of civilised society in the face of ruthless and determined terrorism. 301 officers have died through terrorist attack and nearly 8,500 have been injured. The Government and the majority of the people of Northern Ireland, who respect the decent values of a democratic society, will not forget their ready and courageous sacrifices, and the sacrifices of their families and loved ones.
Those who work closely, or have contact with the RUC from day to day, know that it would like nothing better than to be able to provide a normal police service in a peaceful society, free from the threat of terrorist attack and sectarian violence.
Members of the RUC have worked tirelessly, and with endless commitment, to that end. We all hope that they will soon have the opportunity to police a different and better society.
Whatever the future holds, the Bill will provide an improved system of police governance, which will enable the Royal Ulster Constabulary to be more efficient and more effective in countering crime and other threats to the whole community in Northern Ireland.
Comments have been made elsewhere, including on Second Reading, about the extra powers that the Bill will give my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State. Clearly, that will feature prominently in our consideration of the Bill, and it is relevant to the sittings motion. Without pre-empting that consideration, let me partly deal with the subject.
The model of policing that the Bill introduces gives the Secretary of State the same role in policing Northern Ireland as that of the Home Secretary in policing England and Wales.
The Bill presents great opportunities to the Police Authority and the Chief Constable for changing and modernising their respective roles. The Chief Constable will have control of all the resources he requires to provide the most efficient and effective police service to all the people of Northern Ireland.
The Police Authority has for the first time, the powers it needs to ensure and to require that the views of the community form the framework within which policing in Northern Ireland is conducted. Through the policing plan, it also has clear, published criteria against which to hold the Chief Constable to account. Those matters will form major subjects for debate in Committee.
The Bill also opens the way for the Chief Constable to delegate more responsibility to his local commanders; and that presents the authority with an opportunity to ensure that local communities develop an effective voice in shaping the policing of their own areas and holding their local police commanders to account.
One fundamental issue occurs early in the Bill, and I should like to mention it now. It is worthy of early consideration, and is again, relevant to the sittings motion. I hope that it will assist the Committee in considering the Bill. It is the question of how best to guarantee the impartiality of the police service. Amendments on the matter have been tabled for consideration by the Committee. I have considered those amendments. I have also received representations from the Police Authority for Northern Ireland, and the Secretary of State has discussed the matter at a meeting with the full authority. I hope that I have found a way forward which represents a sensible and workable solution and achieves the aim of the various amendments that have been tabled on that issue.
As members of the Committee will know, the Bill addresses some aspects of the issue in the guiding principles of policing, which are to be issued by the Secretary of State under clause 37. I now wish to take the matter further by applying to the Police Authority and the RUC section 19 of the Northern Ireland Constitution Act 1973, which makes it unlawful for any body to which the Act applies to discriminate in the discharge of functions relating to Northern Ireland against any person or class of persons on the grounds of religious belief or political opinion.
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